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24/09/2016 00:57:28

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
quote] and now the 'heroes' can shut you down if they don't like your vids - how will that work if a 'hero' doesn't agree with your political views, or sexuality, or religion, or sense of humour, etc? An awful lot of people rely on their YT videos to generate income, and that's already started to come to a crashing halt (but YT doesn't even inform you of which vids it's demonetized!). The days of free speech on YT are over. Sad but true.

This whole discussion reminds me of the classic scene from TRUE LIES, in which Arnold and Jamie Lee Curtis are being held captive, and it has just occurred to Jamie Lee that the husband she thought was a wuss is actually a spy.

She asks him "Have you ever KILLED anyone?"
He replies "Ja... but dey were all bad"

And so Hollywood deftly justifies the practice of killing BAD people... now, the million dollar question is: "Who gets to decide who's bad?" Is society as a whole involved in reaching some agreed-upon standard?

In the case of the discussion at hand, it appears that The "heroes" get free reign to decide who's bad. That's a decision in KIND.

Once it's firmly established who's bad, then the degree of punishment can be ramped up at any time.

A worst case example taken directly from history:
In VietNam and Cambodia the Khmer Rouge group trained children to report people who held ideas the regime did not like. After collecting information quietly for months, they rounded up all the "bad people" in one night and executed them.

While it is true that the Khmer Rouge and YouTube DEGREEs of punishment are not worthy to be compared, it is also true that the KIND of thinking used in both cases is remarkably similar. In both cases impressionable young people are used as willing heroes to purge society of evil, and the definition of evil is decided unilaterally. I find the similarity more than a little disturbing.
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24/09/2016 03:11:44

mindiflyth
mindiflyth
Posts: 79
Ziggy, I'm really disappointed and I'm not going to engage with your trolling.
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24/09/2016 13:53:39

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
So, freedom of speech = trolling? Okay, if I'm a troll, I invite Muvizu HQ to throw me off the site ASAP.
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24/09/2016 14:47:32

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
yeah unfortunately ziggy your guilty of not speaking american. I understood what you said. Anyhow the reality is youtube is an american company adopting the same general viewing audience rules of network television which bleeps out everything among other things. Now they want to hold all youtubers to the same cultural standards..

If your starting to feel assimilated I dont blame you LOL. Lets just say that UK sarcasm doesn't go over well cause your not speaking american.
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24/09/2016 16:21:13

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
mindiflyth wrote:
Ziggy, I'm really disappointed and I'm not going to engage with your trolling.


Mindiflyth,
before you take a hard line here, and disengage from somebody who is a real value-adding member of this group... it's worth mentioning that true freedom of expression is a NEUTRAL phenomenon. It doesn't punish anybody, no matter what they believe or how they act or based on the choices they make. It isn't biased in any direction.

At its best, it allows all ideas to be explored and discussed equally. Therefore we should all be very leery of jumping onto any bandwagon that seeks to punish others for their ideology.

It has been my experience on discussion groups that when ideas are actually DISCUSSED (as opposed to prohibiting the discussion of certain topics) the end result is a stronger more cohesive group because everyone gets heard and pent-up animosity gets relieved.

At its worst, freedom of expression can lead to confrontation. But confrontation is always a necessary part of conflict resolution. As long as people (and nations) are still talking, there's usually peace. When the discussion stops.. watch out!

I do think that freedom of expression , in order to work effectively, needs to be accompanied by mutual respect for the dignity of all parties involved. It has been my experience that you can say just about ANYTHING if you preserve the dignity of the other person while saying it. And it isn't even necessary to agree with the other point of view in order to respect the person who espouses it.

From my perspective, your position in this discussion appears to be that one group is free to make their choices, but those who don't agree with those choices are NOT free to think or speak otherwise. This is very one-sided rule making. So you are effectively advocating the practice of censorship, even though that is clearly not in anybody's best interest.

Those who support censorship when it supports their point of view, but oppose censorship when it supports the opposing point of view... that is the classic definition of hypocrisy.

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24/09/2016 17:46:45

tonyob67
tonyob67
Posts: 214
ziggy72 wrote:
So, freedom of speech = trolling? Okay, if I'm a troll, I invite Muvizu HQ to throw me off the site ASAP.




You did not offend anybody, I think this is a forum with adult people and we all respect eachother, and I thought that your comment was funny to Ziggy.

I wont never be ofended by any comment on this forum, , I will try to let it go, becouse maybe I misunderstood the meaning or intention of the other persons comment, maybe he is on a very good mood....unless they insult me directly of courselol hit
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24/09/2016 17:52:16

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
.....so if this was on youtube and the hero program was in force and he said it in a video....

because he is speaking UK english and not american english and the word has a different meaning and was kind of stolen for misuse by one country he would probably have his video removed. Even though he actually said nothing wrong but offended someone who did not know the true meaning and original meanings of the word faggot/faggotry (stupid/stupidity).

I think this thread is a fine example of why a system like this is insanely wrong.

anyhow moving on.. *crawls back into shadows*

/shrug
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24/09/2016 19:24:56

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
Good point Urban, and you just reminded me of something - my very first video, The Hipster Bebop Junkies, includes the line "There's a junk gesture that marks the junkie like the limp wrist marks the fag". Was I labelled a homophobe? No, because William Burroughs is a respected AMERICAN writer who used the word in a context that makes sense and gets his point across (like I assert I did with the phrase 'moral faggotry' in connection with Google, which has nothing to do with sexuality as I tried to explain). However, as soon as a knee-jerk reactionary SJW youtube 'hero' sees it, it will get pulled - maybe my whole channel will get pulled. If you all think this doesn't affect you, think again. Let's say you put a black character into one of your animations - brown skin, reddish lips, wide nose - if a 'hero' thinks that's racist, you are labelled a racist and your videos get pulled. And your right of appeal? Non-existent. Any appeals disappear into a black hole, never to seen again. I knew this was in the pipeline from a long time ago, which is why I've maintained a Vimeo account (just in case). I'd advise you all to do the same.
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24/09/2016 20:01:36

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
it will spread to Vimeo too, unfortunately.
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