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Home ? Feedback ? Muvizu:Play 1.0 timeline discussion

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12/04/2013 10:13:57

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
I've started this thread to discuss suggestions on how to improve the new timeline in Muvizu:Play 1.0. The discussion has been taking place in the v1.0 feedback thread, but the timeline has created enough discussion on it's own that I thought it deserved it's own thread. We can use the original thread to discuss other feedback from v1.0 without getting bogged down on the timeline.
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12/04/2013 10:33:20

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
urbanlamb wrote:
Anyhow I am beginning to worry my muvizu days are over as it seems that my please to have a functional complicated timeline are going unheard.

Urbanlamb, your pleas aren't going unheard. I've responded in the forum with a long post detailing exactly where we are, what we're trying to do, and specifically asking the community for their input on how to improve things for you. Please continue to contribute constructively.


Dreeko wrote:
Surely it would be better to only have the timeline for an object etc created once it has been animated ( or directed as we call it) rather than the second in appears on set?

Dreeko, that does sound ideal in principal. We tried something similar to that in development, but there were issues with it. I'll revisit it and see if we can get it working.



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12/04/2013 10:34:37

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 976
Sadly, like Ziggy, as one of the heavier users it's very difficult for me to start evaluating it as it's too cumbersome and slow to operate at the moment. If we can have a release so that only the animated objects, lights and effects appear then it may shrink and speed it up enough to start playing.


I'm sure I will have stuff to say, but it's not until you start using something that you find out the pluses and minuses.
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12/04/2013 10:45:53

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Well, here are things that will improve the timeline:
  • All options opened and closed by user then saved to set
  • Show all and Hide all buttons
  • Larger play and record buttons
  • Possibly have play and record buttons above sub menus (like example)
  • Only things animated to be displayed on timeline

Have I missed anything?
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12/04/2013 11:12:18

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Ok then,

Here we go!

I propose that the only items that show on the timeline are those which have been animated.

I cannot imagine any reason to have items shown that are never going to be changed or moved over time


The timeline should be for time management and nothing more!


If users wish to see a list of all the items contained within their sets, they have the scene window for that purpose



Here's a quick timeline mockup!



As you can see I have moved the navigation controls to the top and increased the size.
Also at the end of the timeline I have placed an icon to allow the user to delete the timeline.
The right click to reset option that exists is going to be overlooked and will only create numerous forum post with users asking how they can delete unwanted recordings. This icon is a must!

This is enough to start off with. I'll look at the filter feature later!

Cheers
D
edited by Dreeko on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 11:20:02

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Neil wrote:
I'll revisit it and see if we can get it working.


Good man!
edited by Dreeko on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 11:27:53

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Following Dreeko's example, here is the new timeline concept:


As you can see I've added the right click 'add to timeline option. Although it would be completely useless as it's automatic. Duhh

I have also added the 'show all' and 'hide all' buttons at the bottom.
edited by MrDrWho13 on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 13:52:04

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
Neil wrote:
urbanlamb wrote:
Anyhow I am beginning to worry my muvizu days are over as it seems that my please to have a functional complicated timeline are going unheard.

Urbanlamb, your pleas aren't going unheard. I've responded in the forum with a long post detailing exactly where we are, what we're trying to do, and specifically asking the community for their input on how to improve things for you. Please continue to contribute constructively.


Dreeko wrote:
Surely it would be better to only have the timeline for an object etc created once it has been animated ( or directed as we call it) rather than the second in appears on set?

Dreeko, that does sound ideal in principal. We tried something similar to that in development, but there were issues with it. I'll revisit it and see if we can get it working.





I have contributed constructively however its not being seen I have created something of a mockup of what would work unfortunately its been dubbed as to hard for newbies in any event continue on at present what I am seeing as solutions will not solve the problem and only adds buttons which people wont actually be able to use due to the layout.

at present the interface provided with all those menus is simply not going to work as people are still limited due to the layout .

I am pretty sure this is constructive
my diagram is in another thread unfortunately until the entire thing is slimmed down and all that stuff on the left hand side is converted to buttons and those toggles are removed it will really be unsuable. Basically your at the limitations of your interface without a redesign. So i see no point in added these features to the timeline and simply making it more bulky and laggy and the best solution is to simply roll back to the old set up and leave the wave file diagram in and snapping.

Anything else is simply a huge waste of space and making it harder to work with


for this timeline to work I need to be able to single out all the actions of a character or all the walks. The collapsing action of the filter is very difficult and it takes about 10 minutes to uncheck a single item and I dont see this as going away as long as your using this method of dealing with the assets. If pop out menus are created for objects, lights character all on their own menu that is large so that if we have 200 objects on a set and it doesnt take us 10 minutes to uncheck a box this would help a lot.

The left hand menu is simply not going to work not when your starting to try to find things to add and use

If i have say 10 characters doing something (something I have done in the past) I need to say isolate all the actions if i am constantly collapsing and expanding menus its very difficult to work with

So I need a menu that will pop out on its own to select characters in an order which I choose (say its a fight and i have sets of two people fighting each other and trading punches) I need to be able to isolate them in pairs by selecting them in a certain order from a menu. Then I am only working on actions so I need 10 action bars for 10 characters in my timeline and nothing more.

So that i can synchronise it. If say I need to then add motions I need to be able to go back to that initial menu with the characters and select the motions so that I can lump all the movements together so I can work with those.

Basically we need to mix and match this and the interface need to be made to allow this mixing and matching.
edited by urbanlamb on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 13:53:42

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
ukBerty wrote:
Sadly, like Ziggy, as one of the heavier users it's very difficult for me to start evaluating it as it's too cumbersome and slow to operate at the moment. If we can have a release so that only the animated objects, lights and effects appear then it may shrink and speed it up enough to start playing.


I'm sure I will have stuff to say, but it's not until you start using something that you find out the pluses and minuses.


I would like to reitterate this in a constructive manner.

here is the mockup again in this thread. Unfortunately until your roll back to the previous version nothing much more can be evaluated bugwise. I am unsure of how else to say this to make things anymore constructive. Please roll the timeline back leave in the wavefile diagram and the snapping until a better solution can be found.

http://www.muvizu.com/forum/topic2642-timeline-mockup-i-could-live-with.aspx
edited by urbanlamb on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 14:06:16

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Urbanlamb, I don't think Neil was offended or had the intent to offend you either.

He merely said " Please continue to contribute constructively."
It seemed to me that he was just asking you to carry on offering your suggestions and ideas as you have been doing.


Anyhoo..back to the timeline...
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12/04/2013 14:11:08

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
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Posts: 1796
Dreeko wrote:
Urbanlamb, I don't think Neil was offended or had the intent to offend you either.

He merely said " Please continue to contribute constructively."
It seemed to me that he was just asking you to carry on offering your suggestions and ideas as you have been doing.


Anyhoo..back to the timeline...



Yes I have its just I am repeating myself at this point so its feeling a bit frustrating
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12/04/2013 14:22:49

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
urbanlamb wrote:
Yes I have its just I am repeating myself at this point so its feeling a bit frustrating

We've heard you. Please don't be frustrated, you've made your points very clear and we're working hard to address them.
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12/04/2013 14:27:21

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
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Posts: 1796
Neil wrote:
urbanlamb wrote:
Yes I have its just I am repeating myself at this point so its feeling a bit frustrating

We've heard you. Please don't be frustrated, you've made your points very clear and we're working hard to address them.



okay thanks

*stops pulling hair out*

very sorry I will be good now Big Grin
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12/04/2013 14:29:10

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Urbanlamb, I think you have made your point very clearly.

It is interesting to hear everyone's take on how the timeline should be implemented in Muvizu. Hopefully all the suggestion that we pitch in will help to assist in forming the new one, however it looks and performs!


Cheers
D
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12/04/2013 14:40:20

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
This is a wild idea, but maybe we could have different timelines and you could choose one style in the app? dunno
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12/04/2013 14:43:39

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
I have seen some timelines out there that just make me want to run away and hide under the bed.
Anime studio (2d animation software) for instance has a timeline that can change from a main timeline to an action timeline etc and you have to be on the right timeline to do the right thing or your work is lost. It's all very confusing and makes you feel like your in the wrong dimension at times.

We are actually quite lucky with the system we have in Muvizu as a lot of the clever stuff happens automatically...And I'm including the timeline in that statement.


Anime studio timeline (one of them!)

edited by Dreeko on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 14:55:26

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
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Posts: 1796
Unfortunately by default the minute you start to add these "advanced features" your having to make things look exactly like that otherwise people are going to be limited in many ways in what they can do. This is the same issue they have with say video editors there are the stripped down non pro versions and then the pro versions made by companies.


If you can't see things and isolate them in a timeline that is by nature now becoming "a pro version timeline" your going to be unable to work with it. So basically we have muvizu implementing "pro" version stuff for "advanced users" and trying to find a way to do that without confusing "new people" by the very nature of what they are trying to do with this advanced timeline they are going to be confusing new people. So we need to be able to turn this feature on. So maybe by default have a "lite" version (basically 23b timeline with the snapping and wave file) and then we need to turn on the "pro timeline" in this way its hidden for new users but there if others need it.

I dont see a way around this sort of thing for "advanced timeline"

here is iclones it works very well it leaves me with room to do things and snaps to the bottom of the scene and when you want to work with it you pull it out into the middle of the window. The asset menus folds into the side


edited by urbanlamb on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 15:23:40

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Agreed.

The more complex things become within Muvizu with the addition of more features and with that more control, then yes the timeline will become more involved.

So getting it right and by that I mean developing it in a way that will accommodate more control in the future would be the best path to take.

Easier said than done though eh?
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12/04/2013 15:33:34

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
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Posts: 1796
Yes this is not going to be easy or painless but it would bring muvizu to another level leaving it ready to add other bells and whistles once its done
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12/04/2013 15:37:04

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
With my 'crazy' idea of having a choice of different timelines, I have created some mock ups:

'Simple' timeline:


Modified Play timeline:
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12/04/2013 16:04:57

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494
I'm with Mr Dreeko on this one, to quote from the other thread....

I just can't see any possible reason for someone wanting to see items which they won't be animating on a timeline which is effectively a panel for controlling elements over time!?
If they wish to view all items they have the scene window for that.

Timeline should be for time management and nothing more in my opinion.
If anyone can explain to me the benefit to having timelines devoted to motionless and unchanging items I'd love to hear it. I really would!

This seems to be a solution that solves everyone's problems.

I have been actually been fiddling with PLAY since its release rather than filling up the forum. I have produced a couple of small videos as animated comments for Facebook. Ignoring the above issue the timeline does have some very good new ideas e.g. snapping, seeing more than one character at once. waveform display, etc. etc. I could go on but my point is that it would be unwise to throw the baby out with the bath water.

The buttons may be to small for a 1920x1080 display. Can I suggest an option for a pop out box with just the control buttons, this could be appear at the top/bottom of the screen when you click direct. It would also allow more space for those of us with smaller displays to view the action. If you expand the size of the current timeline dialogue with bigger buttons I will spend even more time moving it around instead of animating. You could even hide the timeline completely whilst the controls are displayed and it could re-appear on pressing >STOP<. This would give the whole screen up for viewing the action.

Please don't, by trying to address everyone's concerns, turn Muvizu into something it is not and was never intended to be. The ease and essence of the program must remain imho but as has been said ad infinitum, filling it up with everything has actually made it harder for the experts let alone the new users and it needs to be fixed as a matter of great urgency. I was using one static character, one static backdrop and one static camera and even I was getting slightly irritated by the number of clicks required to see what I wanted to see.

On a side note, in your haste and efficiency to fix this problem please don't forget the > In Use < focus issue. That is causing me a lot more grief than the new timeline at the moment.

Well, that's my 10 pence worth for today and I will now leave you in peace to continue with the vital tasks at hand. Can I suggest that all future releases be handed to a small group of users who can be trusted to keep schtum, ( me for one ), so that these and other problems can be addressed without causing a panic.

I will now retire to the kitchen for some hard earned doughnuts.

Damn Computer..
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12/04/2013 16:16:13

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Great posting WozToons! I completely agree, I'll go and produce a screenshot for you, with your timeline concept. Good Posting
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12/04/2013 16:20:18

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
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Posts: 1796
I guess I would also like to know is muvizu trying to make "muviclone" is this the path they are taking? I didnt mind it the other way as you can see by my video creating activity. I dont need or care about "Muviclone" I just want a usable timeline that isn't going to bring the software to its knees.

snapping good
wavefile good

multipe charaters in a timeline would be nice, but.. not in the present format

multiple objects sometimes .. i created a fleet of pumpkins for an alien invasion of pumpkin starships, but I could do without it. and I could be quite happy without multiple characters.

I just wanna make "cool cheesy videos" with dumb jokes hidden in the background for "effect"
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12/04/2013 16:28:35

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494
MrDrWho13 wrote:
Great posting WozToons! I completely agree, I'll go and produce a screenshot for you, with your timeline concept. Good Posting


Thanks mate but it's really not necessary, just a minimal media player box would suffice. If you must, chop the group of big buttons out of your last one and stick them on the screen as is.


edited by WozToons on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 16:35:45

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Here is Woztoons' idea for the timeline during recording.

edited by MrDrWho13 on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 16:42:03

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494
Looks good, with an option to hide timeline when clicking direct and restore on clicking stop you can see how we single screen laptop users would benefit.

Btw Mr Who, that picture is far too big. I cannot "reply with quote" to it because the comment box is full of scrollbars. For future reference make them smaller.
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12/04/2013 16:43:45

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
OK, I'll try!
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12/04/2013 16:47:01

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494
MrDrWho13 wrote:
OK, I'll try!


Off Topic

For Windows you can get a free handy right-click picture resizer that I use every day.

http://imageresizer.codeplex.com/
edited by WozToons on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 17:28:51

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
I dig the separate window for the transport controls (play, stop, etc). Nice one, Woz.

Some time last year, I had them on a status bar that permanently sat at the bottom of the window. It had the usual controls in there, plus a slide for scrubbing backwards and forwards through time. It was great, it made the timeline so much easier to use. But there was a technical problem (isn't there always) and it had to be removed. I think there might be a way to bring it back for only timeline / directing modes.

That's a task for next week though. It's Friday evening. I'm tired, drained and emotional so I'm going home. Please keep the feedback and suggestions coming over the weekend, I'll try to check in occasionally. Seeya Muvizuers. Thumbs Up

PS: I've had some success with only showing animated things in the timeline as per Dreeko's suggestion. It needs some work, but I think it's a goer.
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12/04/2013 17:31:26

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Neil wrote:
That's a task for next week though. It's Friday evening. I'm tired, drained and emotional so I'm going home. Please keep the feedback and suggestions coming over the weekend, I'll try to check in occasionally. Seeya Muvizuers. Thumbs Up


Good luck for getting through the forum tsunami on Monday!


Neil wrote:
PS: I've had some success with only showing animated things in the timeline as per Dreeko's suggestion. It needs some work, but I think it's a goer.



Great!
edited by MrDrWho13 on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 17:44:17

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
Neil wrote:
I dig the separate window for the transport controls (play, stop, etc). Nice one, Woz.

Some time last year, I had them on a status bar that permanently sat at the bottom of the window. It had the usual controls in there, plus a slide for scrubbing backwards and forwards through time. It was great, it made the timeline so much easier to use. But there was a technical problem (isn't there always) and it had to be removed. I think there might be a way to bring it back for only timeline / directing modes.

That's a task for next week though. It's Friday evening. I'm tired, drained and emotional so I'm going home. Please keep the feedback and suggestions coming over the weekend, I'll try to check in occasionally. Seeya Muvizuers. Thumbs Up

PS: I've had some success with only showing animated things in the timeline as per Dreeko's suggestion. It needs some work, but I think it's a goer.



Thanks for the hard works really for me its been a hard week too, but alas I am always tired, drained and emotional so dont mind me. I'm a 50 year old woman going through you know that change of life thing so that is my excuse and I am sticking to it! Anyhow here is to hoping I can put Rosie as my star security guard that makes sure everyone is good when they enter the daily planet next muvizuzu superman movie thing.
edited by urbanlamb on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 19:38:09

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
Okay, so you can have a fully functional interface, and it will be complex, or a simple interface, which will be limited. Muvizu is trying to do both and it doesn’t work. It never does – not in 3D studio, nor Sketchup or Blender or Vegas or Daz or iClone or anything else for that matter – there will always be someone who looks at an interface and throws up their hands and declares it’s impossibly complicated, no matter how user friendly you try to make it. Screw ‘em. You can’t please everyone, so just aim for the majority and add some tooltip help and slightly patronising tutorials for the rest

Adding everything in the set as a line in the Timeline (by default) is unhelpful, for everyone new and old, I think we all agree on that one. Ironically, the biggest strength of Muvizu was that everything was accessible through the Timeline, but now it’s become its biggest weakness. The Timeline should contain only what the user needs and has selected for use – presenting a new user with a list containing dozens or hundreds of lines will make them run for the hills. So, what to do?

How about this – separate the Timeline into what makes sense logically – there is a Character Timeline, and a Studio Timeline (or Set Timeline, whatever you want to call it). They would both share the cue points for syncing purposes, but other than that they would be distinct from each other because they don’t do the same things. The actions a character can perform have no connection to, say, the movement path of a box, so why have them in the same place? Do objects have eye movements? No, time for a parting of the waves I reckon...

I liked Urbanlamb’s idea of having links to other menus right inside the Timeline, and after a bit of musing came up with this – you’d right click on a character, then select Timeline, and you’d see this (not really to scale, sized just for emphasis) :



Only Character lines would appear in the Timeline, and all Characters would be shown here and not on the Studio Timeline. The character you’ve selected is top of the list, the rest are listed either alphabetically or by date, or maybe by animated and non animated, hmm... Anyway, each button would expand when selected like so :



Clicking the +Movement button would take you to the movement direction box, gestures to Prepare Character Actions, and so on. The crosses on the right would scrub the animations recorded on that timeline, as you’d expect. The blank bit to the left is where you’d have your show/hide all buttons or something equally helpful. No object, lights, cameras or anything like that shown here – just everything that’s directly relevant to a Characters behaviour (and one mystical day, the fabled “props” button will appear, allowing you to select what’s in their hands...)

The Studio Timeline (accessible by right clicking anywhere that’s not a character) would therefore look like this :



Same idea, with each button expanding (if necessary) with the sub options leading to the various screens dotted around Muvizu’s labyrinth of ‘prepare’ dialogs There are no character lines here, and this would help shrink down the Timeline a bit (and the scrolling, the endless scrolling...)

Please note that I only distinguish between Voice and Sound, not Audio, Dialogue and Sound FX as we currently have it, which I never thought made sense – isn’t dialogue audio? Preparing the audio separately beforehand, then having to re-select it as Dialogue seems like a duplication of labour, and a bit confusing. You could still list Sound as two entities - Sound FX and Soundtrack, but I’d put all dialog options (import, prep, direct) into one Voice menu, like how you integrated the Head/eye/eye size controls into one menu.

Right now, if I attempted to load up my Woodland set, all those ferns would have a line shown for them. Every single one. To quote Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons – “There’s no emoticon for what I’m feeling!”. Hope you find my ideas helpful in some way.

Keepin’ the faith

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12/04/2013 20:03:44

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
ok, Ziggy I'm very confused...

Do those buttons replace the little sub-menu collapse buttons?

I think my brain has switched off ready for the weekend.
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12/04/2013 20:20:09

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
ziggy72 wrote:


Keepin’ the faith




okay you read my mind with your mockup i tried a rushed one yesterday but.. i am doing the multitask thing. Yes this is a good representation of the interface that was in my brain.

I will add this photo here in case but those sub menus would be somehow linked to the "main timeline" menu .. again i dont see a way to get around this sort of thing it just wont function ziggy's is way neater i did mine in less then 60 seconds.. i move fast when doing 20 things at once


edited by urbanlamb on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 20:41:38

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Zig!
Sterling effort on the mock up!
I can see a merit in the timeline becoming a does all direction box of tricks in some kind of similar way. I think a combination of ideas from this brainstorming thread could yield a really good timeline!
I would still love the items on the timeline to be only present if they have been directed though, especially now that Neil reports that he thinks has it to the stage that he can call it a go-er!

I wouldn't like to see objects and character separated in the same way that you do, as it is handy to have them visible to keep an eye on them as you direct the other elements.
Also in addition to( or instead of) the option to access direction from the timeline I would dearly love to be able to access direct and prepare modes by right clicking on a character/object/light etc and selecting from the right click menu. I don't know how many times I've done this by accident expecting to be able to to no avail which makes me think that if it is my natural instinct to expect to find them there then they really should be!

I think we are getting there folks! ...
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12/04/2013 20:50:16

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
I was just creating a mock up to try to bring together Ziggy (and urbanlamb's) and Dreeko's timeline concepts, when I witnessed the blue screen of death. My PC is now restarting with 'no changes made to files or software' and I'm hoping that is true.
edited by MrDrWho13 on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 21:09:39

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
MrDrWho13 wrote:
ok, Ziggy I'm very confused...

Do those buttons replace the little sub-menu collapse buttons?

I think my brain has switched off ready for the weekend.


No, they would remain, this is just about getting the functions clearer and I think having a target oriented timeline would have benefits. I think we're past berating the million click drop down issue
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12/04/2013 21:25:58

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
Dreeko wrote:
I wouldn't like to see objects and character separated in the same way that you do, as it is handy to have them visible to keep an eye on them as you direct the other elements.

How do you mean, D? Is it something along the lines of wanting to see the animation blocks for one thing while you direct something else? Having more than 1 timeline might assist that, is what I'm thinking (if I'm thinking what you're thinking, but your thinking may be completely different... )
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12/04/2013 21:26:02

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Ok, so the new buttons are just the same as the sub-menu thingys, but easier to access?

ps: PC is running fine now.
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12/04/2013 21:41:10

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
MrDrWho13 wrote:
Ok, so the new buttons are just the same as the sub-menu thingys, but easier to access?

Yes - have you never thought it odd that you can mess around with, say, head movement blocks in the Timeline, but to add or change them you have to use the menu to get to the option to do that? (assuming your average newb can even find it) Not really intuitive, I think.
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12/04/2013 21:58:28

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Yeah Zig
I would like to see the animation blocks of one timeline while I direct something else so I can see things approaching over time.
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12/04/2013 22:02:55

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
...and if we had selectable lines in the Timeline, like you said, you could customize the look to suit what you're animating and show you the lines that matter - yup, that would be cool
permalink
12/04/2013 22:03:38

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494
As would I. Dreeko

I think the simpler the changes are the faster they will arrive.

We could go for an all singing and dancing timeline now but this will incur quite a delay in my opinion whereas apparently there is a solution half done already for the thing that gave us all a heart attack.
edited by WozToons on 12/04/2013
permalink
12/04/2013 22:06:47

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494
ziggy72 wrote:
...and if we had selectable lines in the Timeline, like you said, you could customize the look to suit what you're animating and show you the lines that matter - yup, that would be cool


I may have misunderstood Ziggy but isn't that what the filter does?
edited by WozToons on 12/04/2013
edited by WozToons on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 22:16:55

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Yeah Woz
That's the way I understand it too.
Zig is something getting lost in translation here?

Mrdrwho may have had the right idea. I think I'm getting too tired for this tonight too!
permalink
12/04/2013 22:20:45

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494
Me too. I think the new timeline with your suggestion added would be fine. I quite like it. Add my little control box with bigger buttons to keep Ziggy happy and we're laughing.
edited by WozToons on 12/04/2013
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13/04/2013 00:48:05

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
As long as the phrase "omg this would be like 20 times faster in blender from scratch to full render" does not pass my lips I am happy and its fine. Whatever they come up with lets hope that phrase is not uttered
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13/04/2013 01:02:58

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
WozToons wrote:
ziggy72 wrote:
...and if we had selectable lines in the Timeline, like you said, you could customize the look to suit what you're animating and show you the lines that matter - yup, that would be cool


I may have misunderstood Ziggy but isn't that what the filter does?


D'oh! yes, of course, I'd already forgotten we now have the ability to choose which lines to show in Play. It's just unusable Big Grin
permalink
13/04/2013 01:12:04

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494
No worries, it's not like it's important. Big Grin
edited by WozToons on 13/04/2013
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13/04/2013 09:18:21

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
I am getting very confused....

So, we don't need those buttons at the top?
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13/04/2013 10:10:34

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Ah, no! I have completely misunderstood you from ziggy's button description post.
Ok, the buttons at the top take you to the direction thingys, rather than what I though, made it show and hide the little things at the left of the timeline. Duh, I have been so stupid.
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13/04/2013 10:10:39

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
MrDrWho13 wrote:
I am getting very confused....

So, we don't need those buttons at the top?


I wouldn't say we needed them but they would be nice!?..Just as an ability to access 'direct' and 'prepare' modes from right clicking on an item would also be nice. ( I'm a big fan of on screen control rather than loads of panels and buttons!)

I think we have given enough input for the devs to be going on with. I think the more we 'over think' this, the greater the chance of us making it too confusing to follow.


Cheers
D
edited by Dreeko on 13/04/2013
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13/04/2013 10:31:43

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Ah, you have read my confused post. I didn't understand what anyone was talking about. I then re-read ziggy's post and it turns out I must of mis-read it. I now understand what you mean and I completely agree!
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13/04/2013 16:32:47

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
I have created an animation of the new timeline concept in powerpoint 2007, however there is no option to save it as a video.

Here is a screenshot anyway:

edited by MrDrWho13 on 13/04/2013
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13/04/2013 19:06:40

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
MrDrWho13 wrote:
Ah, you have read my confused post. I didn't understand what anyone was talking about. I then re-read ziggy's post and it turns out I must of mis-read it. I now understand what you mean and I completely agree!


Good stuff, although when I re-read it I realised I'd forgotten to point out my suggestion had no relation to the million click Timeline problem, but was to suggest how the Timeline could be developed in future to accommodate the new users Neil was talking about, and maybe find a different way to present it. Sorry to all for any confusion caused - it was a long day yesterday...

Anyway, I like your mock-up. I mean, as a new user, don't you think having the links there just helps you realise what you have to address, to think about, to make your animation? The stages involved, and the options Muvizu gives you, that kind of thing. I've always felt Muvizu was very fragmented, little modules of code living separate little lives distant from each other. We don't have to show the end user that though, do we?
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13/04/2013 20:16:06

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
ziggy72 wrote:
MrDrWho13 wrote:
Ah, you have read my confused post. I didn't understand what anyone was talking about. I then re-read ziggy's post and it turns out I must of mis-read it. I now understand what you mean and I completely agree!


Good stuff, although when I re-read it I realised I'd forgotten to point out my suggestion had no relation to the million click Timeline problem, but was to suggest how the Timeline could be developed in future to accommodate the new users Neil was talking about, and maybe find a different way to present it. Sorry to all for any confusion caused - it was a long day yesterday...

Anyway, I like your mock-up. I mean, as a new user, don't you think having the links there just helps you realise what you have to address, to think about, to make your animation? The stages involved, and the options Muvizu gives you, that kind of thing. I've always felt Muvizu was very fragmented, little modules of code living separate little lives distant from each other. We don't have to show the end user that though, do we?

Yeah, I totally agree.

Just for clarification, I am not a new user, I have been using Muvizu for 3 years.
edited by MrDrWho13 on 13/04/2013
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13/04/2013 21:01:17

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
I didn't mean 'you' were a new user, I meant if you were seeing the program AS a new user, don't you think etc... I know you've been around for ages
permalink
13/04/2013 21:03:26

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
ziggy72 wrote:
I didn't mean 'you' were a new user, I meant if you were seeing the program AS a new user, don't you think etc... I know you've been around for ages

Ah, yes, I was wondering if you meant that.
Anyway, yes I do think so.
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15/04/2013 10:47:24

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
MrDrWho13 wrote:
Good luck for getting through the forum tsunami on Monday!

Thanks. I've been here all weekend in stealth mode, so it didn't take too long to catch up this morning. Now, I just need to work out what to actually do with all this lovely feedback.

Cheers everyone, much appreciated.
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15/04/2013 10:55:18

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Neil wrote:
MrDrWho13 wrote:
Good luck for getting through the forum tsunami on Monday!

Thanks. I've been here all weekend in stealth mode, so it didn't take too long to catch up this morning. Now, I just need to work out what to actually do with all this lovely feedback.

Cheers everyone, much appreciated.


Good tactic!
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15/04/2013 15:47:36

simonhefferMuvizu mogulExperimental user
simonheffer
Posts: 225
My 2p'th:
Sounds like we are trying to add all the Prepare and Direct menus into the timeline. Sounds far too busy to me. It was unclear whether those buttons Prepared or Directed (or both). And there was no Clapper-board button.

I'd prefer a right-click context menu on scene items to adding stuff to the timeline (as per Dreeko). That way you only get the relevant actions for the object type you've selected and the timeline is not in the way if you want to select a different item.

As we have a lot more items on the timeline would having a way to focus on the currently selected object be useful?(eg we've looked at lots of objects in the timeline now we want to go back to Helga). Maybe the Home button or just re-select the object in the scene.

Simon
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15/04/2013 15:58:06

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
I don't follow... please explain.
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15/04/2013 16:00:16

simonhefferMuvizu mogulExperimental user
simonheffer
Posts: 225
Er - I made 3 points here - you want me to explain them all?
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15/04/2013 16:40:34

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Yes please, sorry.
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15/04/2013 17:13:59

simonhefferMuvizu mogulExperimental user
simonheffer
Posts: 225
simonheffer wrote:
My 2p'th:
Sounds like we are trying to add all the Prepare and Direct menus into the timeline. Sounds far too busy to me. It was unclear whether those buttons Prepared or Directed (or both). And there was no Clapper-board button.

So I guess the Action/Movement button will either Prepare a new character Movement section or Direct one or... (this wasn't clear to me).
Busy = too much on the dialog.
Where's the Direct button (or is there another view of the time line for directing).
simonheffer wrote:

I'd prefer a right-click context menu on scene items to adding stuff to the timeline (as per Dreeko). That way you only get the relevant actions for the object type you've selected and the timeline is not in the way if you want to select a different item.

If I want to do something to Helga I right-click on her and a menu pops up allowing me to select Prepare/<action> or Direct/<action> or Properties. Pretty standard fare on Windows. Besides even on your version if I want to now do something to Fred I still have to select him and then go back to the timeline. I think Right-click is quicker.
simonheffer wrote:

As we have a lot more items on the timeline would having a way to focus on the currently selected object be useful?(eg we've looked at lots of objects in the timeline now we want to go back to Helga). Maybe the Home button or just re-select the object in the scene.

e.g. Re-selecting Helga would bring the Helga part of the Timeline into view.
Simon

Better?
permalink
15/04/2013 17:31:23

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
simonheffer wrote:
simonheffer wrote:
My 2p'th:
Sounds like we are trying to add all the Prepare and Direct menus into the timeline. Sounds far too busy to me. It was unclear whether those buttons Prepared or Directed (or both). And there was no Clapper-board button.

So I guess the Action/Movement button will either Prepare a new character Movement section or Direct one or... (this wasn't clear to me).
Busy = too much on the dialog.
Where's the Direct button (or is there another view of the time line for directing).
simonheffer wrote:

I'd prefer a right-click context menu on scene items to adding stuff to the timeline (as per Dreeko). That way you only get the relevant actions for the object type you've selected and the timeline is not in the way if you want to select a different item.

If I want to do something to Helga I right-click on her and a menu pops up allowing me to select Prepare/<action> or Direct/<action> or Properties. Pretty standard fare on Windows. Besides even on your version if I want to now do something to Fred I still have to select him and then go back to the timeline. I think Right-click is quicker.
simonheffer wrote:

As we have a lot more items on the timeline would having a way to focus on the currently selected object be useful?(eg we've looked at lots of objects in the timeline now we want to go back to Helga). Maybe the Home button or just re-select the object in the scene.

e.g. Re-selecting Helga would bring the Helga part of the Timeline into view.
Simon


Better?
Yeah, thanks.
1. Hmmm... I think prepare would be best, then if you want to direct, you hit the direct button.
2. Yeah, the direct and prepare right click buttons are a great idea
3. Yes, re-selecting Helga would bring back her timeline.
permalink
15/04/2013 17:42:53

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
myself i am not looking to add anything else to the timeline..

what i want to see because quite frankly its unusuable with more then a couple of selections is those menus with the arrows that expand to a 20 mile long list that i have to somehow sort through and the ability to add and remove things easily without going insane in a single click and not have the choices made for me because this is causing a huge issue.

anyhow there is really only a few ways this can be done

the view scene window is an example of a usable menu that can be pretty much duplicated and used as a menu for the timeline but this menu needs to be seperate so we can see it and use it and pick and choose from it. Then we need a way to easily remove stuff we are done with in the timeline this usually is done not with unclicking boxes but by using links as its much easier to use and faster .

anyhow my fears are to be honest that well firstly the community is having to give such heavy input into what a functional design is and that its becoming a sort of battle between different user types. Anyhow lets hope that what gets produced is something we ALL can use. Having worked with so many types of software I have seen most companies settle on the same basic layout each and everytime for a "complicated timeline" so really there isnt a whole heck of a lot of choice. The only thing i dont want to see happen is muvizu make the choices for me. This is okay at a beginner level but once you get used to something and want to make it do your bidding having stuff done automatically is actually pretty annoying and a huge waste of time as you spend time undoing all that automatic stuff before you can move forward.
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17/04/2013 07:16:41

EEFilmzExperimental user
EEFilmz
Posts: 397
Hello all, I haven't created in "play" yet, but I will say this, I tried to read everything in this thread and found myself drifting with a bad headache and a stomach ache. I liked the old layout, I basically adapted to the changes over the last 2 years. In the previous Timeline version, the only beef I had was the UNDO feature would screw up everytime trying to undo a change, and all actions etc in that line were lost! That was Hell. In my last video: EEF - Trail Of Blood - Part 1% - Part 2, I had approximately 27 bikers(and other characters), 27 bikes, 27 explosions, at least 27 fires, and other actors, furniture actions, and everything had to be Timed perfectly to sync with the music I wanted to use. I LOVE the SCENE WINDOW and ALL that it does, like being able to select a ton of items at once and select to animate the same objcet property in one click like I did with the bikes, and then just adjust the timing in the timeline slightly=HUGE timesaver! ...SIMPLE IS GOOD, LESS IS MORE and the old Timeline layout wasn't an issue for me, but that's my own opinion, and maybe it's impossible, but here's one Idea I have: What if you took the old layout, plus the added features that now exist like snapping etc whatever (I haven't used it so I dunno), and display Timeline and scene window together side-by-side with linked-usage capabilities of the scene window with the Timeline? so, if you have 35 out of 40 characters jumpin or dancin or whatever, all you do is select them in the scene window, now ONLY the 35 jumping show up in the Timeline window, then you assign the action, or property animation etc, and then tweak in the Timeline while viewing both scene window and timeline at the same time in side-by-side windows with all the buttons and listings on the same level, and at the same size! Personally I don't like the idea of having big overlay buttons over smaller lists behind on the timeline like some of the images I see in this post...it's not something I want to deal with at all...For me simplicity in Timeline layout and something close to what Muvizu has always been great and the scene window is just genius, so if those 2 were linked and displayed together or the option of that was available that'd be awesome. Sorry I don't wish to upset or disagree with anyone's thoughts or ideas, just adding my own opinion if it's feasable. I'm still wondering why Muvizu felt the need to change the "layout" of the Timeline anyway. As I said, I haven't really used the new version yet, so take this for whatever it's worth...I quote the great Rolling Stones: "We can't always get what we want We can't always get what we want but if we try sometimes, we just might find we get what we need..Oh Yeah..." Thanks - EEFilmz
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17/04/2013 19:59:22

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
EEFilmz wrote:
LOVE the SCENE WINDOW and ALL that it does, like being able to select a ton of items at once and select to animate the same objcet property in one click like I did with the bikes, and then just adjust the timing in the timeline slightly

Didn't ever think of doing that - nice one EEF!

EEFilmz wrote:
What if you took the old layout, plus the added features that now exist like snapping etc whatever (I haven't used it so I dunno), and display Timeline and scene window together side-by-side with linked-usage capabilities of the scene window with the Timeline?

Yes, yes, bloody yes! That is much better than my version
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17/04/2013 20:32:18

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
ziggy72 wrote:
EEFilmz wrote:
LOVE the SCENE WINDOW and ALL that it does, like being able to select a ton of items at once and select to animate the same objcet property in one click like I did with the bikes, and then just adjust the timing in the timeline slightly

Didn't ever think of doing that - nice one EEF!

EEFilmz wrote:
What if you took the old layout, plus the added features that now exist like snapping etc whatever (I haven't used it so I dunno), and display Timeline and scene window together side-by-side with linked-usage capabilities of the scene window with the Timeline?

Yes, yes, bloody yes! That is much better than my version



lol well that was my mockup but it was dismissed as too complicated unfortunately I dont see a whole lot of other choices the view scene window is manageable and it breaks stuff up into nice little groups it just needs submenus for each of the items so we can select. The view scene windows is something that we can obviously manage because its been there forever and it didnt seem to cause any issues.
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17/04/2013 21:16:59

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
Yes, quite right Urban, I should really have said "my version of UrbanLamb's idea". My bad
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17/04/2013 21:33:30

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
ziggy72 wrote:
Yes, quite right Urban, I should really have said "my version of UrbanLamb's idea". My bad


I wouldn't worry about the whole who's idea was who's thing. We have all made so many suggestions over the years that we have all probably had the same ideas at one point or another!

cue video..


edited by Dreeko on 17/04/2013
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17/04/2013 21:43:04

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
yeah i wasn't commenting on it in that way its just when i posted the photo it apparently was too complicated unfortunately I dont see what else to do anyhow. *cough* would be nice if i could use muvizu play but my experience last night trying to load a set and work in it was the same except I got to hide everything in a single click but judging from the lack of lag (that should have occured as the items were removed from the timelines) when I clicked that Hide option it was just a visual fix and those eleventy seven million items were actually still loaded into the timeline even if i couldn't see em Cause i sure was lagging after i clicked hide
*begs once more for rollback*

*walks off to play with iclone*
edited by urbanlamb on 17/04/2013
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17/04/2013 21:58:23

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
urbanlamb wrote:
when I clicked that Hide option it was just a visual fix and those eleventy seven million items were actually still loaded into the timeline even if i couldn't see em Cause i sure was lagging after i clicked hide


I'm sure functionality will win over visual aesthetics, cos as you say, If they are merely hidden and still causing a lag then that aint good
...A clutter is still a clutter even if it is swept under the sofa out of view

But (and as an atheist this is a strange thing for me to say...) Sometimes you just have to have faith, and in Muvizu I trust!
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18/04/2013 00:35:52

EEFilmzExperimental user
EEFilmz
Posts: 397
ziggy72 wrote:
EEFilmz wrote:
LOVE the SCENE WINDOW and ALL that it does, like being able to select a ton of items at once and select to animate the same objcet property in one click like I did with the bikes, and then just adjust the timing in the timeline slightly

Didn't ever think of doing that - nice one EEF!

EEFilmz wrote:
What if you took the old layout, plus the added features that now exist like snapping etc whatever (I haven't used it so I dunno), and display Timeline and scene window together side-by-side with linked-usage capabilities of the scene window with the Timeline?

Yes, yes, bloody yes! That is much better than my version


Glad that was helpful ziggy! believe me I am lazy so when I created all those bikes my brain thought hmmm wonder if I can do this...and I hwas happy as a pig in $%^ when I found out you could animate multiple objects' properties in one click! plus it makes it easier to find an object when there are alot of objects or objects not necessarily in view. It just seems like a no brainer to link those 2 very useful tools (Timeline & Scene Window) to work together simultaneously in tandem..

@ Urbanlamb, sorry if I missed it but I had a bad bad headache and had to stop reading and starting skimming the forum after getting lost in reading. Also, in the past, as far as "lag" during production, Muvizu staff told me I think back when I did one of my KISS videos I had SERIOUS lag time messing everything up, and they said try working in UNLIT mode, and then revert back to LIT mode when rendering. It worked for me on that particular set, not sure if that's help you though. Good luck! - EEF
edited by EEFilmz on 18/04/2013
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18/04/2013 15:30:30

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
Me again. I wanted to give you a quick heads-up on where we're at. We're hoping to get a new patch out early next week to fix the load/save errors and to fix the worst of the problems with the timeline.

Regarding the timeline, I wanted to show you some screenshots of how we're going to tackle it (at least initally).

This is Muvizu after loading the Gears Rock Stage set. As you can see, the timeline is nicely empty and doesn't have a million objects listed in it that will take you 8 hours to hide.



Now, if I create a character in this scene and then direct a few actions on him, my timeline will automatically show the "Actions" track for hat character.



You can decide to hide the character from the timeline if you want, using the completely revamped filter dialog:



When it opens, everything is collapsed so it's quick and easy to find the object or character you want to hide. When you get there, there are three options: shown, hidden, and show if animated. This last option is what everything is set to by default, so things will only appear on the timeline once they've actually been directed in some way. Of course, there are buttons across the bottom to hide everything, show everything or reset everything back to the default setting.

After this next patch, we'll look at making further changes to the timeline to address some of your other issues.
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18/04/2013 15:42:40

simonhefferMuvizu mogulExperimental user
simonheffer
Posts: 225
Great stuff - now onto waypoints!!!
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18/04/2013 15:47:12

Marco_D
Marco_D
Posts: 582
I know my opinion is biased, but that looks awesome

Cheers,
Marco
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18/04/2013 15:52:09

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Great stuff Neil, thanks for the update!
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18/04/2013 18:00:31

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
oh that looks nice and its big and seperate from the timeline so we can like make it larger and smaller and not have to fiddle so much. I will be waiting impatiently of course to be able to use my mammoth sets again
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18/04/2013 18:03:47

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
EEFilmz wrote:

Also, in the past, as far as "lag" during production, Muvizu staff told me I think back when I did one of my KISS videos I had SERIOUS lag time messing everything up, and they said try working in UNLIT mode, and then revert back to LIT mode when rendering. It worked for me on that particular set, not sure if that's help you though. Good luck! - EEF
edited by EEFilmz on 18/04/2013


yes this is not the case here its related to the new timeline stuff and becomes an issue with large sets containing 100+ objects
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18/04/2013 18:18:25

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494
Neil wrote:
Me again. I wanted to give you a quick heads-up on where we're at. We're hoping to get a new patch out early next week to fix the load/save errors and to fix the worst of the problems with the timeline.

After this next patch, we'll look at making further changes to the timeline to address some of your other issues.


Tres bon, tres tres bon. C'est magnifique. Bravo!
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18/04/2013 21:14:47

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
"Show if animated" - looks so obvious now you've shown us it, Neil Brilliant stuff!
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18/04/2013 21:35:06

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Only show if animated,
Filter opening with subsections collapsed,
And more improvements to follow!


Aaahh! (Dreeko sits back into sofa with a warm satisfied feeling that all is once more alright with the world!)
Time for some wine I feel

Here's to Neil, the timeline saviour!
Cheers
D
permalink
22/04/2013 14:30:50

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
Just a quick heads-up, we released the latest patch this morning.
Toast
permalink
22/04/2013 14:35:56

simonhefferMuvizu mogulExperimental user
simonheffer
Posts: 225
woo hoo!! Party
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22/04/2013 15:15:49

wdeprospo
wdeprospo
Posts: 86
Hi Neil,

I opened Muvizu Play and downloaded the latest......

Open the latest
Loaded a set
Opened the camera Window
Right mouse edit and .....



???

William
permalink
22/04/2013 15:29:27

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
wdeprospo wrote:
Open the latest
Loaded a set
Opened the camera Window
Right mouse edit and .....

Hi William,

Were you getting this crash with the version before the patch? We know a lot of people have been reporting this very same crash but for the life of us we can't work out what's causing it. We've tried it on numerous computers both in the office and at home, and we've never managed to repeat it even once. We know it happens, we just can't work out why and until we can find a computer to see it happen on, I'm afraid we're stumped. I can only apologise for the inconvenience and assure you that we're determined to fix it, so please bear with us.


In the meantime, could you give us some information about your PC. The operating system (eg Windows 7 64-bit), the amount of memory, the make and model of graphics card. That sort of thing. Could you also check that you've got the latest graphics drivers installed.
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22/04/2013 15:44:15

wdeprospo
wdeprospo
Posts: 86
Hi,

Yes I have been getting this since the first update of Play.

I ran a dxdiag...How do I upload it to you.

Directx 11
Windows 7 64 bit


I did uninstall everything.

Downloaded Muvizu again, refreshed MS stuff, .net C++ runtlme etc...
permalink
22/04/2013 17:18:27

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
I've just had a breakthrough!

I noticed a while ago that a lot of the people reporting this bug have been using Muvizu in languages other than English. I'd tried setting Muvizu into all of our supported languages to see if that helped, but I still couldn't get it to crash.

After seeing William's DxDiag results in French, I thought I'd investigate that deeper and I've just completely reconfigured my Windows to French. Lo and behold, Muvizu crashes when I try to edit an object or double click the camera window!

So, the good news is I can see what the problem is and know how to fix it. Obviously this is going to need another patch, which we'll try to get out in good time.

In the meantime, I think you can get Muvizu to work by configuring your Windows to English.

To do this, go to the Control Panel and edit your Region and Language settings:





Then, set the Format to English:

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22/04/2013 17:21:53

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
I just wanted to add, thanks to everyone who's helped out with this bug. Either by reporting the issue, sending us screenshots, DxDiag reports, trying fixes such as reinstalling, etc.

Also thanks to everyone for being patient with us while we sort this issue. Big hugs to you all.
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22/04/2013 17:22:51

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Great work, detective Neil!
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22/04/2013 17:33:20

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
I see muvizu refuses to learn a second language haha well although the bug was annoying I did get a chuckle from this one.
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22/04/2013 18:03:32

colyn
colyn
Posts: 7
Neil thank you to you for finding this solution. I can finally use this new
Muvizu version. Really, really thank you to you.
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22/04/2013 18:45:38

wdeprospo
wdeprospo
Posts: 86
Neil, I'm happy to hear this 'hopeful' resolve. I will wait for the fix, I am now so used to the French, I'll leave it and try the fix when it is available..

Thanks Again....

William

P.S A quick thought. When I install Muvizu I select English, although the PC, Windows O/S etc. is all in French ( the native install for France).
edited by wdeprospo on 23/04/2013
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23/04/2013 01:58:29

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
hi me again
I installed the latest muvizu and saw some of the timeline changes, but my metropolis set (actually not as large as some other sets I have used) but it contains about 15 characters and a lot of lights is refusing to load.. well its loading very slowly its been half an hour and its at 79%.

I did manage to use rosie in my railroad junction set that loaded but its mostly just mesh. I was hoping I could post yay its fixed enough for me to build sets, but I dont think it is

Anyhow getting there slowly i see




err actually I changed my mind I think its usable now hehe. It finally did load and when i pressed the button to hide the rest of the stuff in the timeline that was animated it seemed to not have any lag at all so I guess even though it took 37 minutes to load that set after it loaded it was okay to use so yay for that.

thanks!


*cough* third edit ..
and then when I went to shut the program down it crashed :/
no messages just stalled and gave up running. Anyhow *cough* I think I am done posting about this now ^^
edited by urbanlamb on 23/04/2013
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23/04/2013 10:29:02

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
urbanlamb wrote:
and then when I went to shut the program down it crashed :/

Urbanlamb, would you be willing to send me the set file so I can take a look at the crash and maybe even why it's taking so long to load? If so, please send it to bugs@muvizu.com and mark it for my attention. Thanks.
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23/04/2013 18:16:34

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
Neil wrote:
urbanlamb wrote:
and then when I went to shut the program down it crashed :/

Urbanlamb, would you be willing to send me the set file so I can take a look at the crash and maybe even why it's taking so long to load? If so, please send it to bugs@muvizu.com and mark it for my attention. Thanks.


okay it wont fit in an email I will upload it somewhere as the site refuses my sets now and send a mail. Its something I wanted to rebuild and its kind of in a mess but I am using it or was. Most other sets are loading now within 10 minutes. Even if i am wrestling with the timeline now for the most part it was usable. Although I have to admit so far I am finding this new muvizu play to be more of a test of my will to put up with it then an experience where I am going to be able to use it with any skill. Again its the timeline its simply huge and so far i just can't really work with it with multiple items in it. However its usable but I can't use it to the proficiency I was too gangly still. I used it last night briefly and the only way i could make it viable is to use it one character or item at a time.
edited by urbanlamb on 23/04/2013
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30/04/2013 14:16:28

simonhefferMuvizu mogulExperimental user
simonheffer
Posts: 225
(Possible re-post - cannot find the original)
When I try to reset the track of one of my character's audio Muvizu locks up and I get the Windows <Program> not responding message. Windows 7 64bit home premium. Latsest Muvizu 64bit.
The set is the recently uploaded sahb set and the character is Alex.

Simon
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30/04/2013 19:53:55

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
I found this online, does anyone remember the timeline being so simple?

edited by MrDrWho13 on 30/04/2013
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06/05/2013 14:14:30

JamieMuvizu staff
Jamie
(Account inactive)
Posts: 609
MrDrWho13 wrote:
I found this online, does anyone remember the timeline being so simple?

edited by MrDrWho13 on 30/04/2013



Where on earth did you find that?
Takes me back...

--
Direct, don't animate!
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06/05/2013 14:29:39

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
How about this one? I don't think this one's ever been seen in public before.

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06/05/2013 20:37:29

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Woah so bare!

Jamie, I was googleing Muvizu and went through all the images, there's some pretty cool screenshots of the old app and website!
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13/05/2013 19:22:55

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
MrDrWho13 wrote:
Here is Woztoons' idea for the timeline during recording.

edited by MrDrWho13 on 12/04/2013

Any more news on the new timeline?
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