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Home ? Characters ? QUADRAPED IDEA....

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29/08/2015 19:11:32

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
OK, I see lots of requests for quadrapeds. I figure it hasn't happened because the engine supports bipeds only, and that would be a major development to introduce a whole new animal (so to speak)

But here's an idea that might be something the existing engine could handle with a few tweaks from the programmers:

Remember those old vaudeville acts where they'd simulate a horse by putting two men under a blanket, and had one of them wear a horse's head? If Muvizu had a "body" container that could be populated with a character, (or two)... then you could create creatures with 4 legs! (better yet, if you could instantiate the legs from one character, you could make a centipede!)

Once we had that, we could create 3d heads all day long and the sky would be the limit!

And while I'm asking for crazy stuff, it would also be cool if the resulting assembly was scalable down to pet size or up to radioactive monster pet size. You know somebody will want to do that. ;-)

Or, it might be easier to create a new biped character class that is much smaller, specifically for use with the quadraped body

Just a thought... put it in the back of your thinking. It might be possible already... can somebody out there figure out a way to couple two characters with a body container so they stay together as a unit? Oh, and we'd only need one head.... ;-)
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31/08/2015 19:55:04

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
another approach that could be used in scenes where the character was not completely visible while walking:

an imported model of an animal's backside and hind legs could be attached to a biped as a tail. This is a device that has been used in theater productions where human actors have to portray 4 legged creatures. The backside, in that case, has wheels, and it follows the actor around when they walk.

Unfortunately, a fixed model's legs would not move, so it wouldn't be useful in full-body scenes while the character walked. HOWEVER...

in that case you could put a backdrop in front of the stationary legs to hide them, focus a camera on the moving front legs, and put the output of that camera on the backdrop. This would do a "pretty good" job of simulating the appearance of a walking quadraped.


UPDATE: I tried the idea above (using a camera and backdrop to simulate hind leg movement) and couldn't make it work because...

1) the hands swing when walking, and they show up in the backdrop video

2) I could never get the background color of the backdrop to blend with the actual background of the scene, so it was obvious that a backdrop was being used. However a more skilled Muvizu user might know how to overcome both of those obstacles
edited by PatMarrNC on 01/09/2015
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01/09/2015 15:58:58

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
Heh... last night I played around with the idea of appending the back side of an animal to a biped (as a tail). Of course, the back legs don't move when the character walks, but I have to admit that I found it to be extremely amusing in a Monty Python kind of way.

There were poses that actually looked pretty convincing as a quadraped (but the character was standing still. )

In the event that any of Muvizu's programmers are following this thread and considering implementing any aspect of this idea to allow 4 legged creatures... it would be cool if I could make the character's arms invisible. A 4 legged creature that also has arms wouldn't work for most applications
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01/09/2015 16:17:35

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
Another idea that might already be possible, but I'm not familiar enough to know about it:

Is it possible to link two characters (or duplicate one character) and force them to stay the same distance apart? Move in tandem? If so, any of us could import a 3d body container now, and as long as the 2 sets of legs stayed the same distance apart, voila! Instant quadraped!

In looking through the tutorials and other info on this amazing program, I'm sure I saw somewhere that parts of characters can be made invisible.. but I can't remember where I saw it. That would have to play into this too, because unless everything but the legs can be hidden, implementing the idea of a quadraped body container would be harder. Not impossible, but definitely more of a challenge.
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01/09/2015 17:25:51

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
Yeah, we've asked for quads before (mainly because we have a dog character who is bipedal) but it requires a completely different approach to how it would be animated and handled by the program, so it's dubious if it will ever happen UNLESS we get an improved FBX importer which allows for some skeletal elements and rigging to be imported as well. Personally, I would love to have horses in the program because it opens up so many more options...I wonder if the Muvizu equivalent of a pantomime horse would work, with two characters joined together to give you two sets of legs and a common head?
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01/09/2015 20:05:47

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
ziggy72 wrote:
Yeah, we've asked for quads before (mainly because we have a dog character who is bipedal) but it requires a completely different approach to how it would be animated and handled by the program, so it's dubious if it will ever happen UNLESS we get an improved FBX importer which allows for some skeletal elements and rigging to be imported as well.

I don't think that what I'm asking for would require all that much change to the basic engine... this is the tail end (pun intended) of a longer thread in which I described a way to "simulate" four legged creatures by using the elements we already have ... the only changes needed would be to provide the following:

1) a way to link two characters so one of them always follows the other by a specified didtance
2) the ability to make the rear character invisible from the waist up.

Personally, I would love to have horses in the program because it opens up so many more options..

if what I'm recommending is indeed possible to implement, you could have horses and I could have my cats.

.I wonder if the Muvizu equivalent of a pantomime horse would work, with two characters joined together to give you two sets of legs and a common head?


that's exactly what I'm talking about. I don't see where that approach would really change the basic engine.
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01/09/2015 20:07:55

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
Having fun playing with the idea of appending the back half of a cat as a tail. Also experimenting with face masks that don't cover up the mouth...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/39qmkoesjymyzoj/catsass3.mp4?dl=0

(I apologize for the cat's poor manners... but he's destined to be the bad cat of the series...)

;-)
edited by PatMarrNC on 01/09/2015
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01/09/2015 20:48:41

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
LOL yes, it needs more legs less arms You can't give a group of characters a movement direction, so I guess that's a clue as to the kind of restrictions the Muvizu system has to work with. Regardless, keep up the protest vids - I made one (A Fistful Of Coders) to petition for holding things, and that happened...eeeeeeeeeventually Big Grin
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01/09/2015 21:37:21

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
ziggy72 wrote:
LOL yes, it needs more legs less arms You can't give a group of characters a movement direction, so I guess that's a clue as to the kind of restrictions the Muvizu system has to work with.


Well... it seems to me that since we direct each character's movements in passes, and we can slide them around the timeline to get precision... the engine wouldn't HAVE to control the movement of two characters! (at least not in the same pass)

So the more I think about it, if it is possible to make portions of a character invisible, then this is possible already!

I've already demonstrated how a "body" could be appended to the end of a biped. Add a second character, hide his top, and tweak the 2nd character's motion until his legs stay under the "body"

I need to see if I can find that thread about making parts of a character invisible. Dang, I might have a viable quadraped before I go to bed tonight if I can solve that last hurdle...


Regardless, keep up the protest vids - I made one (A Fistful Of Coders) to petition for holding things, and that happened...eeeeeeeeeventually Big Grin


You inspire me Ziggy! Seriously! (cool idea about holding things, by the way!) You are clearly one of the value-adders on the forum


parting thought:
is there an action that allows a character to walk while stooped over?
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01/09/2015 21:52:32

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
One last thought, then I'll shut up.

If there were an 18th character that consisted of nothing but legs with no feet... we could model and import whatever kind of feet our creatures need. (hooves, paws, talons, cloven whatever)

The whole purpose of this character would be to serve as the back legs of quadrapeds.
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01/09/2015 21:57:34

fazz68
fazz68
(Account inactive)
Posts: 767
you can make the newer characters partly invisible except the heads. because you cant swap them over for another head. the potato heads are all one mesh (i think) so its all or nothing



the closest ive gotten to any sort of rideable thing was a weird waist attachment.




which has yet to see the light of day...... but who knows Big Grin


the kandar riders in action
edited by fazz68 on 01/09/2015
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01/09/2015 22:01:01

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
PatMarrNC wrote:
parting thought:
is there an action that allows a character to walk while stooped over?

You'll have to experiment with the idle positions.

Also you should upload your video to youtube through this site so they're forced to watch and moderate it.

ziggy72 wrote:
Regardless, keep up the protest vids - I made one (A Fistful Of Coders) to petition for holding things, and that happened...eeeeeeeeeventually Big Grin

It was you! As soon as I watched the cat video I remembered yours. I spent ages trying to find it before reading your post. Doh!
edited by MrDrWho13 on 01/09/2015
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01/09/2015 23:39:45

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
Fazz,
Your kandar riders are AWESOME!
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02/09/2015 00:30:52

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
MrDrWho13 wrote:
Also you should upload your video to youtube through this site so they're forced to watch and moderate it.


good point! I just uploaded it, as per your recommendation...


ziggy72 wrote:
Regardless, keep up the protest vids - I made one (A Fistful Of Coders) to petition for holding things, and that happened...eeeeeeeeeventually Big Grin

It was you! As soon as I watched the cat video I remembered yours. I spent ages trying to find it before reading your post. Doh!


is this video still available? I searched for it to no avail... but I'd really like to watch it!
edited by PatMarrNC on 02/09/2015
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02/09/2015 07:50:49

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Here's the video: http://www.muvizu.com/Video/16210/A-Fistful-Of-Coders

It's still a pretty good video despite its age.
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02/09/2015 16:28:54

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
Wow, well done all around! Effective use of all the tools at your disposal! You apparently put a lot of time into finding appropriate music too!

I especially like the fact that your scenes have the appearance of being storyboarded... each one frames well in its own right!

I also liked the circling camera, and the transitions, such as the one from the tombstone to the characters.

all in all it made the point very well, and ended on a humorous note! Standing Ovation here!
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02/09/2015 18:56:08

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
PatMarrNC wrote:
I especially like the fact that your scenes have the appearance of being storyboarded... each one frames well in its own right!

I must confess I didn't storyboard that one at all, and just made it up as I went along. The dialogue was created out of necessity to make the point, but I never intended to make that video quite like that... it just sorta evolved into what it is

Remember, if you want to see someone's vids just click on their name in the forum and then you should go straight to their content page with all the stuff they've posted. I'd recommend you start with the Moguls and work your way through...there's some awesome (and crazy) content created by this community (I'm looking at you, Fazz68... Big Grin)
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02/09/2015 19:45:15

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Fazz, Ziggy, and Dreeko are my personal favourites.
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02/09/2015 19:46:42

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
yeah, viewing everybody's videos is on my to-do list for sure. I've purposefully avoided doing that until I get my brain wrapped around the paradigm because I'm afraid it would be easy to latch onto somebody else's style ... like a baby animal thinking that the first creature it sees must be its mother. But what I've seen here so far is amazing! Y'all put a lot more effort into your videos than I plan to put unto mine!
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02/09/2015 19:49:39

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1742
MrDrWho13 wrote:
Fazz, Ziggy, and Dreeko are my personal favourites.


note to self: "study the masters"

then plagiarize. ;-)
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