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23/01/2014 11:27:45

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 976
Don't know if you've seen this blog post - http://www.muvizu.com/Blog/178/Detangling-the-web-of-animation very interesting.


This has highlighted a kind of fundamental difference in the approach you can take in Muvizu and the more productive one Disney use. Let me elaborate....


When blocking out a scene you concentrate on character movement. Where are they, where do they move and what do they do. This should be the first thing to do as demonstrated by Disney. But in Muvizu it's the last thing you do. You have to build the set and then put the characters in rather than the other way round.


Building a set is a very, very time consuming task. If you wanted to emulate the workflow demonstrated by Disney you would have to build the set around each character movement. You'd have to build it piece by piece for each shot. You can see that Disney just plop the whole thing in.


So what would be the fix ?


I normally work with two sessions of Muvizu open. Typically I will be making a section of film between two characters so the camera and lighting will be coming from different directions for each character. I move one session on and whilst that is rendering/saving/loading I fiddle around with the other one. Obviously my machine heats the whole house, but the system works for me.


If we could group objects and copy between Muvizu sessions, or save and import "sub sets" then we could design the character movement and sets separately and then mash them together later.


I am happy with the way I work now though, but am always looking at ways of speeding production up. I know that Muvizu were hoping to move into a more professional space and I can see that this restriction would be a stumbling block.


Just saying.......
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23/01/2014 13:25:54

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
i was thinking about lighting the other night as i tried to match the lighting between several sets (lighting and camera settings actually) and had thought about I wished we could save things like lighting set ups and move them from set to set. I would assume that such things are going into their pro package in development as they define is as "mostly" gpu render so they are rebuilding muvizu with such things in mind

To be honest though an animation in regards to how most of those guys work is actually more of a composite where characters are shot seperately from sets and its all combined at the end and they have a specific department for compositing and post processing. Most of these real time engines focus on doing it all in one set more like "real life" and not like 3d or even 2d animation.

Anyhow they need a few things like being able to create a path for cameras to follow or move between waypoints to remove the "gamer" element and they need the ability to save lighting set ups and import them into other sets for consistency. Among other things
edited by urbanlamb on 23/01/2014
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25/01/2014 12:32:46

bigwallyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
bigwally
Posts: 401
ukBerty wrote:
Don't know if you've seen this blog post - http://www.muvizu.com/Blog/178/Detangling-the-web-of-animation very interesting.


This has highlighted a kind of fundamental difference in the approach you can take in Muvizu and the more productive one Disney use. Let me elaborate....


When blocking out a scene you concentrate on character movement. Where are they, where do they move and what do they do. This should be the first thing to do as demonstrated by Disney. But in Muvizu it's the last thing you do. You have to build the set and then put the characters in rather than the other way round.


Building a set is a very, very time consuming task. If you wanted to emulate the workflow demonstrated by Disney you would have to build the set around each character movement. You'd have to build it piece by piece for each shot. You can see that Disney just plop the whole thing in.





Hmmmm... I personally am a minimalist when it comes to set design. I think people would be shocked/amused when they see how sparse my actual sets are. In Nick Danger - Cut 'Em Off at the Past, many of the "sets" are just photo backgrounds, using invisible platforms to put the actors in the proper places.


After all, were are trying to emulate Hollywood (in many ways) when making videos. If a Hollywood director wants the Taj Mahal for his movie, he doesn't build a replica of the Taj Mahal, he fakes it. Hollywood is all about "faking it". If you need an interior of a jet plane, you don't build an entire jet plane, you build localize sets that are needed.
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25/01/2014 14:53:58

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 976
Bigwally - You're right of course - I shouldn't build the whole environment. The trouble is that story-boarding beforehand is difficult. We have tried it but I sound like a stuck record "characters can't do that" and "I don't have one of those". If I was better at modelling (i.e. could do it at all) then it would make sense to storyboard.

It would still be very useful to copy groups of things, and characters with actions, between sets.
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25/01/2014 15:29:19

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
hehe i dont use 2d set backgrounds this is one line of thought that does not hold with all users and styles. They do location shoots in the movies as well and take advantage of the actualy 3d backgrounds and looks. With technology today you no longer are limited to flat 2d backgrounds if the pc can handle it people will do it

myself I build low polygon 3d backgrounds (like the game engines do where they have backgrounds for various levels of detail) these are much more pleasing to the eye even though they are really at that level only just boxes and stuff with the introduction of normal maps and fbx format they have enabled the ability to make everything 3d with very low cost on the graphical end.

using 2d and animating that is only one style and to be honest a style I dont use unless pushed because I hate the look no offense lol its just not something I enjoy watching. Not in hollywood or anywhere else. At present hollywood and most studios now shoot on location this is more of what they do these days and what we are trying to emulate. I love this reel by the way i have watched it about a million times. It was done by a low budget indie studio I hope the film comes to canada one day



This is how I strive to use 3d software you will notice its green screen and 3d objects. In fact this is how entire series are filmed on tv these days against a green screen the 2d background concept is "old" and myself I find myself using muvizu as I would other 3d software low polygon 3d assets (because its a real time engine) in the background where I can and "higher" polygon on the foreground. Or I greenscreen the character and insert 3d backgrounds using keying techniques although my software is not good. These are the techniques I use. I will not use 2d in colour it really can look very bad.

This reel is what I shoot for in my small way. It looks better to me and I am constantly upgrading my pc to accomodate that look on the reel
edited by urbanlamb on 25/01/2014
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27/01/2014 19:45:56

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
I thought I would post this i found this article today. Its about how they bring things to life 'in modern times' CG and lots and lots of compositing is where its at these days now with the advent of such powerful pc's the sky is limit. I watched this show reel above when it was first posted on blender artists forum (me and my cg addiction) but i noticed today a link has appeared to an article where they explain how they achieved such shots with mostly pixels and just a few actors in front of green screens.

Archer is another astounding work they in fact create 3d scenes of the backgrounds render them out and then paint over them by hand. The result leaves you wondering if your looking at a 2d scene or a 3d scene.

anyhow here is the article on stalingrad http://www.cgsociety.org/index.php/CGSFeatures/CGSFeatureSpecial/stalingrad
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