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11/04/2013 18:21:08

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
MrDrWho13 wrote:
Ok, Here is the updated list of problems, in no particular order, bold things have not been fixed yet:

Timeline to have all options closed at start and opened by user individually -fixed enough for us!

  • the timeline needs to be redone its not right it just doesnt need tweeking its unusable its also the reason why muvizu is completely unusuable right now so unless they fix this as in completely redesign it for someone who is using more then 2 talking heads and a table and a chair then the entire thing is pointless. Its the cause of the massive lag I am experiencing the filter is only for visibility its not physically removing the data from the timeline. The timeline needs to stard out with no data none. We need to pick and choose exactly what goes into it and it needs to be stored that way. There need to be seperate menus on the timeline which open up into the timeline not this toggle stuff it simply wont work for this its far to complex.
    Within the menus need to be sub menues so we can choose what properties of each invidividual object, character, asset are going to appear in the timeline. I wish that moguls had been consulted on these issues because they would have known from the get go that this particular design was not going to work.
  • permalink
    11/04/2013 18:21:32

    MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
    MrDrWho13
    Posts: 2221
    fazz68 wrote:
    id like to add a positve

    this awesome scroll bar..... i can now use more than 7 textures on an imported model Toast


    I have to say, that is awesome!
    permalink
    11/04/2013 18:23:49

    MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
    MrDrWho13
    Posts: 2221
    urbanlamb wrote:
    MrDrWho13 wrote:
    Ok, Here is the updated list of problems, in no particular order, bold things have not been fixed yet:

    Timeline to have all options closed at start and opened by user individually -fixed enough for us!

  • the timeline needs to be redone its not right it just doesnt need tweeking its unusable its also the reason why muvizu is completely unusuable right now so unless they fix this as in completely redesign it for someone who is using more then 2 talking heads and a table and a chair then the entire thing is pointless. Its the cause of the massive lag I am experiencing the filter is only for visibility its not physically removing the data from the timeline. The timeline needs to stard out with no data none. We need to pick and choose exactly what goes into it and it needs to be stored that way. There need to be seperate menus on the timeline which open up into the timeline not this toggle stuff it simply wont work for this its far to complex.
    Within the menus need to be sub menues so we can choose what properties of each invidividual object, character, asset are going to appear in the timeline. I wish that moguls had been consulted on these issues because they would have known from the get go that this particular design was not going to work.



  • Ok, I'll post the list here in a mo, updated with that info, thanks!
    permalink
    11/04/2013 18:26:47

    MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
    MrDrWho13
    Posts: 2221
    Ok, Here is the updated list of problems, in no particular order, bold things have not been fixed yet:

    • V0.23b compatibility issues
    • Weird movement line glitch
    • Price - lower so that us average users can remove the watermark - therefore Muvizu makes more money off it
    • textures not showing when you go to add a texture you are already using
    • dialogue with 4 characters only the 1st dialogue part you do shows up in the time line until you untick the next character and tick again in the filter - probably fixed
    • recent scenes do not show on start up
    • Timeline problems (http://muvizu.com/forum/topic2645-muvizuplay-10-timeline-discussion.aspx?p=f#post15555)
    • tutorials message won't hide
    • Double click on camera window crashes app
    • when zooming with scroll button, it's difficult to get back to where you were - unknown if this is fixed
    • "close" button is directly over the "abort" button - see ukberty's post
    • 'ERROR Lipsync data could not be processsed'
    • You can't rename any audio track - unknown if this is fixed
    • Rosie character - changing clothes colours then trying to scale her up or down results in flickering clothes. If scaled to fast, Muvizu crashes - see Fazz's post (http://www.muvizu.com/forum/topic2639-bugs-in-muvizuplay.aspx?p=f#post15508)
    • Cannot use mouse to navigate after using another window - see ukberty's post
    • Muvizu stays active when closed - Unknown if fixed
    • None of the textures fit fat woman - (http://www.muvizu.com/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=2649&MessageID=15608#post15607)




    Also, bullet points to copy and paste into forums. I have to go back and edit these lists every time I post them. Then after adding bullet points, I need to go back and make things bold again!

    Thanks everyone for finding these errors, and thanks to the Muvizu team who are doing their best to fix them!


    Have I missed anything?
    edited by MrDrWho13 on 11/04/2013
    edited by MrDrWho13 on 12/04/2013
    edited by MrDrWho13 on 12/04/2013
    edited by MrDrWho13 on 12/04/2013
    edited by MrDrWho13 on 12/04/2013
    permalink
    11/04/2013 18:33:32

    urbanlamb
    urbanlamb
    (Account inactive)
    Posts: 1796
    MrDrWho13 wrote:


    Timeline to have all options closed at start and opened by user individually



    not just objects
    characters
    lights
    everything
    also dialogue boxes need to be with the characters when timeline opens up not at the very top of the menu

    (I hope I am not sounding cranky its a crazy day and i am just typing as quickly as i can in between the chaos )

    I am focusing on timeline because this to me is not a bug its a design issue which should not have made it into the product period and needs to be fixed fast very fast. Dots on the floor invisible cameras everything else almost takes a back seat because you can cope with them in some manner and struggle on.

    Also not fixed for me until I can actually use it at the moment I can't . Just folding the menus and having stuff off is not the answer it needs to be not there no menus none just the object or light or character or camera etc .. and again apologies for being cranky and very abrupt i am busy today. Anyhow now i will go away and leave you be ^^
    edited by urbanlamb on 11/04/2013
    permalink
    11/04/2013 18:35:25

    MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
    MrDrWho13
    Posts: 2221
    OK, I'll go and edit that in
    permalink
    11/04/2013 20:29:16

    ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
    ziggy72
    Posts: 1988
    Dreeko wrote:
    Surely it would be better to only have the timeline for an object etc created once it has been animated ( or directed as we call it) rather than the second in appears on set?

    I shudder to think what Ukberty's and Ziggy72's timelines look like!


    You know Dreeko, I didn't even try. I posted in this thread early on, after a quick mess around with Play, got Rosie to roll her eyes (brilliant looking when you can animate the eye size too!!), then closed Play and went back to work on my latest set with the 23b version. Then, watched with growing horror/bemusement/happiness/frustration in equal measure as this thread just got bigger and bigger with problems, some good bits, then bugs, more bugs, bugs on bugs, and the final realisation (as UrbanLamb pointed out) that the Timeline is just wrong for Muvizu. Might be right for something else, yeah, but not this program.

    Another thing I realised after Neil's post (which was indeed very welcome, thanks dude) was that something I complained about ages ago (the vast expanses of wasted space on the old timeline) has been sorted, but now it seems like I'm complaining the other way and in fact it's too dense and tiny. Then it hit me - when I upgraded my machine with a (damn fine) video card, I also upgraded my monitor so that I could use the program in 1080p, not the 720 I'd used before. The full HD resolution is great, but it scales everything right down, and so the new Timeline now looks unusably tiny (to me anyway). Also, I'm not sitting a foot away from the screen like you do when at a desk.

    Anyway, regardless of font sizes, having those tiny controls under the Timeline doesn't work at all - they should be bigger, and probably at the top of the Timeline window, closer to the centre of the screen where they are easily accessible. If you really want to keep newbies informed, show them the buttons to press. Can't hurt

    Rambling on a bit, but all I really wanted to say was this - Dreeko's right. He's spot on, in everything he said in his post. If it ain't animated, I ain't interested - get it off the Timeline.
    Neil wrote:
    I can see how showing everything by default can be frankly a bit poo if you have a large set, but we have to consider the opposite problem of an inexperienced user opening the timeline for the first time and seeing it completely empty and not knowing how to (or realising they can) make things visible.

    What about the camera? If you start anew, there is always 1 camera. Always. So, when a newbie sees the Timeline for the first time, and the only thing on it is Camera 1, and he looks at his set and it's blank except for a single camera... Well, if you can't work that one out then you shouldn't be allowed out of the house, let alone near a PC. If you want to have the flexibility to have absolutely everything on the Timeline the user could want, just add that as a right click option - "Add to Timeline". The item's track would be added, regardless of whether it was animated or not. All animated items are added to the Timeline by default as soon as you hit Record. How about that?

    (the paperback edition of this post will be availlable soon)
    permalink
    11/04/2013 20:37:38

    MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
    MrDrWho13
    Posts: 2221
    ziggy72 wrote:
    Dreeko wrote:
    Surely it would be better to only have the timeline for an object etc created once it has been animated ( or directed as we call it) rather than the second in appears on set?

    I shudder to think what Ukberty's and Ziggy72's timelines look like!


    You know Dreeko, I didn't even try. I posted in this thread early on, after a quick mess around with Play, got Rosie to roll her eyes (brilliant looking when you can animate the eye size too!!), then closed Play and went back to work on my latest set with the 23b version. Then, watched with growing horror/bemusement/happiness/frustration in equal measure as this thread just got bigger and bigger with problems, some good bits, then bugs, more bugs, bugs on bugs, and the final realisation (as UrbanLamb pointed out) that the Timeline is just wrong for Muvizu. Might be right for something else, yeah, but not this program.

    Another thing I realised after Neil's post (which was indeed very welcome, thanks dude) was that something I complained about ages ago (the vast expanses of wasted space on the old timeline) has been sorted, but now it seems like I'm complaining the other way and in fact it's too dense and tiny. Then it hit me - when I upgraded my machine with a (damn fine) video card, I also upgraded my monitor so that I could use the program in 1080p, not the 720 I'd used before. The full HD resolution is great, but it scales everything right down, and so the new Timeline now looks unusably tiny (to me anyway). Also, I'm not sitting a foot away from the screen like you do when at a desk.

    Anyway, regardless of font sizes, having those tiny controls under the Timeline doesn't work at all - they should be bigger, and probably at the top of the Timeline window, closer to the centre of the screen where they are easily accessible. If you really want to keep newbies informed, show them the buttons to press. Can't hurt

    Rambling on a bit, but all I really wanted to say was this - Dreeko's right. He's spot on, in everything he said in his post. If it ain't animated, I ain't interested - get it off the Timeline.
    Neil wrote:
    I can see how showing everything by default can be frankly a bit poo if you have a large set, but we have to consider the opposite problem of an inexperienced user opening the timeline for the first time and seeing it completely empty and not knowing how to (or realising they can) make things visible.

    What about the camera? If you start anew, there is always 1 camera. Always. So, when a newbie sees the Timeline for the first time, and the only thing on it is Camera 1, and he looks at his set and it's blank except for a single camera... Well, if you can't work that one out then you shouldn't be allowed out of the house, let alone near a PC. If you want to have the flexibility to have absolutely everything on the Timeline the user could want, just add that as a right click option - "Add to Timeline". The item's track would be added, regardless of whether it was animated or not. All animated items are added to the Timeline by default as soon as you hit Record. How about that?

    (the paperback edition of this post will be availlable soon)


    That's a great idea! (the add to timeline idea)

    Maybe we could have the main timeline (with play and record controls etc) above all the drop down menu thingys? Also, you could make the play and record buttons a bit bigger?
    edited by MrDrWho13 on 11/04/2013
    permalink
    11/04/2013 20:49:05

    MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
    MrDrWho13
    Posts: 2221
    Maybe like this?
    permalink
    11/04/2013 22:07:42

    ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
    ziggy72
    Posts: 1988
    MrDrWho13 wrote:
    Maybe like this?


    Yeah, that kinda thing
    permalink
    11/04/2013 23:13:39

    urbanlamb
    urbanlamb
    (Account inactive)
    Posts: 1796
    I guess i am a bit baffled at this sort of almost paradox of introducing a complicated timeline that "newbies" can understand

    Visual fixes and minor tweeks on this present system is not gonna help a whole lot. It looks fine and i "like" the idea however at present said idea is making is so I cannot use muvizu even if you fix all those bugs. A light user is not going to care much about this timeline issue. Those who care are the ones that are trying to make muvizu do sommersaults and create massive cinematic type things with more then one or two characters and 20 objects and a couple of lights.

    So in all honesty making a complicated timeline a newbie would understand is a bit of an oxymoron i guess or paradox or both i can't decide which.

    I am horribly worried that what is happening here is that "power users" or whatever you want to call us crazy people who want to make epic movies with custom built sets are being squeezed out in favour of people who are into 1 minute long joke videos placed on youtube with the hope of going viral. Although in that case a complicated timeline is not necessary simply put the wave file at the top of the old timeline and include snapping and its all good.

    So where the issue is when we move beyond that. Anyhow I am beginning to worry my muvizu days are over as it seems that my please to have a functional complicated timeline are going unheard. If the intention is just to leave it that way with the filter and moving a few items out of it is what is going to happen it wont be anymore usable then it is now. Because well i would have to purchase a 70 plasma tv set to do my muvizu work on.

    Anyhow I have done the best I can do. I posted a mock up and sent a mail to bugs@muvizu even though its not a bug hehe. I was just rather alarmed to read its "fixed for now" with that minor tweak which in the end wont actually make it anymore usable then it was that other night. The reality is I tried to prepare the timeline in such a way that assuming you did that fix you just posted that would fix it all i was fit to be tied as i tried to find what I needed to do workwise in that mess.

    I love muvizu but this timeline breaks it. If the intention is to just make it so all those boxes are uncheck and do nothing more then for me I see a better solution to leaving in snapping, the new wavefile diagram and putting the rest back to the way it was because I will never be able to have more then one character and a camera line usable anyhow so I fail to see how this is a "new thing" when its just more cumbersome and completely does not serve the purpose of multilple characters etc in the timeline.

    /shrug
    edited by urbanlamb on 11/04/2013
    permalink
    12/04/2013 08:45:12

    mcmillan-raExperimental userMuvizu staff
    mcmillan-ra
    Posts: 164
    Hello,

    For those of you looking for the previous release - you can find them at the following links.

    32-Bit

    64-Bit

    These are off our site rather than the mirrors. Either will work, but just in case you want them here.

    If you run these you'll probably get told that the content packs have been updated. You probably can install them, and they should work. But, your mileage may vary.

    Thanks again for all the feedback. It's made some happy men (people), very old.
    permalink
    12/04/2013 09:11:17

    MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
    MrDrWho13
    Posts: 2221
    urbanlamb wrote:
    I guess i am a bit baffled at this sort of almost paradox of introducing a complicated timeline that "newbies" can understand

    Visual fixes and minor tweeks on this present system is not gonna help a whole lot. It looks fine and i "like" the idea however at present said idea is making is so I cannot use muvizu even if you fix all those bugs. A light user is not going to care much about this timeline issue. Those who care are the ones that are trying to make muvizu do sommersaults and create massive cinematic type things with more then one or two characters and 20 objects and a couple of lights.

    So in all honesty making a complicated timeline a newbie would understand is a bit of an oxymoron i guess or paradox or both i can't decide which.

    I am horribly worried that what is happening here is that "power users" or whatever you want to call us crazy people who want to make epic movies with custom built sets are being squeezed out in favour of people who are into 1 minute long joke videos placed on youtube with the hope of going viral. Although in that case a complicated timeline is not necessary simply put the wave file at the top of the old timeline and include snapping and its all good.

    So where the issue is when we move beyond that. Anyhow I am beginning to worry my muvizu days are over as it seems that my please to have a functional complicated timeline are going unheard. If the intention is just to leave it that way with the filter and moving a few items out of it is what is going to happen it wont be anymore usable then it is now. Because well i would have to purchase a 70 plasma tv set to do my muvizu work on.

    Anyhow I have done the best I can do. I posted a mock up and sent a mail to bugs@muvizu even though its not a bug hehe. I was just rather alarmed to read its "fixed for now" with that minor tweak which in the end wont actually make it anymore usable then it was that other night. The reality is I tried to prepare the timeline in such a way that assuming you did that fix you just posted that would fix it all i was fit to be tied as i tried to find what I needed to do workwise in that mess.

    I love muvizu but this timeline breaks it. If the intention is to just make it so all those boxes are uncheck and do nothing more then for me I see a better solution to leaving in snapping, the new wavefile diagram and putting the rest back to the way it was because I will never be able to have more then one character and a camera line usable anyhow so I fail to see how this is a "new thing" when its just more cumbersome and completely does not serve the purpose of multilple characters etc in the timeline.

    /shrug
    edited by urbanlamb on 11/04/2013


    Urban, in a previous post, neil said that they were going to look into saving the tabs open to the set file. Why would this not solve your problem?
    permalink
    12/04/2013 09:12:46

    mcmillan-raExperimental userMuvizu staff
    mcmillan-ra
    Posts: 164
    urbanlamb wrote:

    Anyhow I have done the best I can do. I posted a mock up and sent a mail to bugs@muvizu even though its not a bug hehe. I was just rather alarmed to read its "fixed for now" with that minor tweak which in the end wont actually make it anymore usable then it was that other night. The reality is I tried to prepare the timeline in such a way that assuming you did that fix you just posted that would fix it all i was fit to be tied as i tried to find what I needed to do workwise in that mess.


    I wouldn't say it's "fixed for now". I'd say we've put in a quick workaround that will (hopefully) help some people to be able to use it more than they can now. We are looking at ways to improve it for everyone. But, these other changes will take longer to do because there's a much larger amount of work needed to implement them - and it has more impact on other parts of the system.

    Your (and other's) comments will help define our solution to this, so please don't give up on us.
    permalink
    12/04/2013 09:20:31

    MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
    MrDrWho13
    Posts: 2221
    I have updated the list, see here, http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=2622&Page=5&MessageID=15524#post15524
    permalink
    12/04/2013 09:21:52

    DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
    Dreeko
    Posts: 1258
    What you think of the idea to only show timelines for directed items rather than for everything? ( including kitchen sinks if selected!)
    edited by Dreeko on 12/04/2013
    permalink
    12/04/2013 09:25:21

    MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
    MrDrWho13
    Posts: 2221
    Dreeko wrote:
    What you think of the idea to only show timelines for directed items rather than for everything? ( including kitchen sinks if selected!)
    edited by Dreeko on 12/04/2013

    I think the users should have the option to show all animated items or show all items. With tick boxes or something?
    permalink
    12/04/2013 09:42:18

    DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
    Dreeko
    Posts: 1258
    MrDrWho13 wrote:
    Dreeko wrote:
    What you think of the idea to only show timelines for directed items rather than for everything? ( including kitchen sinks if selected!)
    edited by Dreeko on 12/04/2013

    I think the users should have the option to show all animated items or show all items. With tick boxes or something?


    I just can't see any possible reason for someone wanting to see items which they won't be animating on a timeline which is effectively a panel for controlling elements over time!?
    If they wish to view all items they have the scene window for that.

    Timeline should be for time management and nothing more in my opinion.
    If anyone can explain to me the benefit to having timelines devoted to motionless and unchanging items I'd love to hear it. I really would!

    I may be missing something here...
    Cheers
    D

    PS: well done to mrdrwho for all his efforts in regards to collating all the bugs etc into a nice tidy list for folks to peruse!
    permalink
    12/04/2013 10:04:29

    MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
    MrDrWho13
    Posts: 2221
    I think someone mentioned before that new users may look at a chair in their set, then look at the timeline and not see it there.
    It was just an idea, it doesn't really matter!
    permalink
    12/04/2013 10:16:34

    NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
    Neil
    Posts: 396
    I've created a new thread to discuss suggestions for improving the timeline as this thread is getting quite bogged down with it and I don't want other feedback from v1.0 to get lost in the discussion.

    http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=2645

    If you have any feedback or suggestions on the new timeline in Muvizu:Play v1.0, please post them in that thread. Thanks, everyone.
    permalink
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