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03/03/2013 16:47:40

InsaneHamster
InsaneHamster
Posts: 272
I think setting a price on Muvizu to get a license is a difficult thing for me to say how much I would spend on it. Here is my concern and why I don't believe Muvizu will be very expensive.

They may just leave Muvizu free and have you buy a license for a set fee, which would be okay for them as long as people buy a license after all they need to make money also.

BUT, here is the only major problem with MUVIZU, that will keep the price low I think. As you use MUVIZU and your putting together your short film you really need a certain action lets say for example eating, or a tripping action. As it is now you have to do camera tricks and such to make it look like this has happend which sometimes takes away from the film. YOU as a director is very dependant on the people at MUVIZU to create the actions and characters needed to keep making great films. This is where the trouble lies. People already want tons of stuff, like holding items, hand gestures with conversations, etc. etc, etc, this makes us very dependant on Muvizu, we cant create these things like in other software.
In return this should keep the price of MUVIZU fairly cheap.

If at some point your able to make custom actions or something like that then I can see the price going up. but for now I can't see it going to high.

The question is where do they want to make the bulk of their earnings? Is it from the sales of a pro-version which could allow people to use MUVIZU as a money maker or off of just selling licenses to people to allow them to make money off there films.

I personally think the smartest idea and most profitable for them will be to sell a pro-version with a licenses to use your vidoes for profits if you see fit. People who really like this software (myself included)
will buy a pro version if they really want to create films in hopes of making a little cash or making the next big hollywood block buster.

They of course could leave the base progream like it is now free and charge you for a license then they could sell packages to people. for example they could sell a Content pack called " lets chat" or something like that. In that package could be new conversation actions, maybe a phone with the abilitie to hold it actually, phone conversations, eye and face gestures, etc, etc, or maybe a SPY Content pack with new actions, textures, guns, blah blah blah, I think you get my idea. These packages could cost lets just say 20.00 USD for example. Then as a user you can purchase this package and download it. If you don't want it you don't have to buy it. They could create a nice little income from this as well.

Okay im done rambling. Hope you all have a wonderful day.

Mr. Hamster Drink
edited by InsaneHamster on 03/03/2013
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03/03/2013 18:12:36

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
Not to scare anyone but I could easily see a base package of muvizu going for 200 usd or so. If you look at the competition they sell addons that make it possible to do more with the software but their base package is around 500 bucks. Although in each case they offer something different in a base package they way you get more options is to upgrade or get an addon studio etc. I dont see muvizu going as high as 500 bucks and again this is all speculation on my part .. because as a base package its still a bit low on feature and needs a bit more development but I can easily see it going for 200 bucks.

Now I should hide but realistically speaking this seems like a fair price to me given the potential and power behind it. Its very versatile now & it occupies a niche of silliness (ignore my stuff I am not quite sane with my half hour epics lol) and people will pay for that niche for sure!
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03/03/2013 21:17:09

InsaneHamster
InsaneHamster
Posts: 272
I also was thinking 200 bucks. I can't see it going much higher than that. Not without major tweeks and addons. I am curious as to if it was 200 dollars will that include free updates or will you have to pay for an update that cost less then what you paid for Muvizu orginally. Hmmmm...
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03/03/2013 21:53:55

fazz68
fazz68
(Account inactive)
Posts: 767
i dunno about most people here but i dont have a pot to **** in, so if muvizu does charge for their software im afraid thats me done. its not that i wouldnt pay because i love messing about with muvizu but at the end of the day i just wouldnt be able to afford it.
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03/03/2013 22:43:33

InsaneHamster
InsaneHamster
Posts: 272
It would seem like a smart idea to keep a free version around as that has been there business card for such a long time. And let people have the option of buying a pro-version like most programs do. But I guess only time will tell....or someone from Muvizu staff lol
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03/03/2013 23:36:18

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
fazz68 wrote:
i dunno about most people here but i dont have a pot to **** in, so if muvizu does charge for their software im afraid thats me done. its not that i wouldnt pay because i love messing about with muvizu but at the end of the day i just wouldnt be able to afford it.



Yes dont worry I would be very surprised if they removed the free version they just have a lot of people asking for a "smalltimers" commercial use version as well so for lack of a better word me thinks they are trying to keep everyone happy

InsaneHamster wrote:
I also was thinking 200 bucks. I can't see it going much higher than that. Not without major tweeks and addons. I am curious as to if it was 200 dollars will that include free updates or will you have to pay for an update that cost less then what you paid for Muvizu orginally. Hmmmm...



Yes I see great minds think alike or in this case mine and Mr hamsters

*whispers okay my sense of humour is getting a bit offbeat I better go eat some food my low blood sugar is making me a bit more dippy then usual*
edited by urbanlamb on 03/03/2013
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04/03/2013 00:37:19

DyllyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dylly
Posts: 555
Am I excited or what! Now don’t all faint at the shock that I’m posting again, but this news has certainly jiggled my brain cells.

Ever since I first saw Muvizu on the BBC I was enraptured by this insane, whimsical, simple yet powerful (to half inch the Muvizu blurb) animation tool. What an amazing learning curve it has been...and I am amazed at the range of skills I have learned through using Muvizu...from animation to 3D model making, direction, sound recording and editing...and what fun the ride has been too! I have learned so much with Muvizu for four reasons. Muvizu is easily accessible, it’s adaptable in terms of props, it enables innovation and finally the community of Muvizu staff and users is such a helpful and happy place. There are no prima donnas, I’ve never come across anyone yet that has ‘spat their dummy’ or ‘launched their teddy’.

Now over the last couple of months I’ve been tinkering, those that know me know I never damned well stop, with every animation package I could get my hands on. I’ve tried them all. Why? Because I wanted to make a feature film. But there is nothing out there that is as simple and intuitive as Muvizu.

I would of course like there to be a free version of Muvizu available. Something to get people started with the basic characters, sets etc. I would also like to see a Pro version of Muvizu. Minus the watermark, with a few extra bells and whistles such as additional animations, higher resolution, slightly more realistic props, manual puppeteering? I don’t mind paying for it...it’s worth it!

I would also like to see a Muvizu Market where additional characters, animations, prop sets could be purchased for the Pro version of Muvizu. Music and dialogue we can buy for our productions, backdrops...the list is endless. I would also like the free props section to remain on the website. I would also like an opportunity available to sell props through a Muvizu Market even on a 50/50 split. However I would like this to be done in a way that ‘keeps’ the feel and high quality of the Muvizu product. A set of developers guidelines and quality assurance measures in place. Perhaps a chance to receive instruction on ‘Muvizu Styling’ or a developers course with Muvizu accreditation...once again something I would be willing to pay for.

With the likes of products like Daz Studio or Poser or iClone...the money is in the add ons...the new characters...the new props. The software is something to save up for...or use the older free version...but the pocket money priced props are what makes the money. As both a purchaser and through products I make and sell through the likes of Renderosity, Daz et al I know the amounts of money that can clatter into the cash drawer.

A big thank you to all at Muvizu and all the fellow nutters that inhabit the forums...it’s been amazing up to now and I’m sure the future will be just as brilliant!
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04/03/2013 03:26:32

EEFilmzExperimental user
EEFilmz
Posts: 397
Just my thoughts and requests here, I think thematically along with Muvizu's theme of Direct don't animate, and for myself personally I have requested Muvizu come out with a Hollywood-ish and/or Movie-making "set" with all the ncessary props like directors chairs, panaflex cameras, ez-ups, food trucks, cables, boom mic all that stuff adn the possibilities are endless and I know Muvizu staff said it's on their suggestion wall I think...It's something I seriously hope t see since I wanna make movies about making movies and things like that. One of my hopes is that characters on Muvizu will be able to carry, hold, throw objects one day! we have all these sets an things that'd be cool if only...and by the way I am in production again now finally and thre is still an issue with capes turning pink on-set between setups! it's a minor thing but annoying, and it's these things that need to be ironed out before someone would shell out money for it. the competition for free programs is too vast, I do my research, I was looking for a free animation program that had a certain look/feel adn capability and Muvizu had ALL I wanted and it took me a year before I had a PC in my hands that could handle it. I love this program, I think it has alot more things to work through and fix...and some things need to be easier. It has been a learning experience for me, as I have had to teach myself so many things to achieve what I want, and some things I still cannot do because I just don't have the time or the patience or the focus to work out these problems myself, like getting 3d models into Muvizu, some people have that down and can do it eaasily, I have problems with it. Things like that I wish were simpler. The more complex I make my set I start to get crashes...although now it has happenede under many versions of Muvizu that I can somehow now intuitively know or figure out iin my head where the problem lies - most recently it is the capes that were giving me crashes adn errors on a certain set I have...so I removed it...it helped but not entirely...I still get times where the program stops responding. I guess I am spoiled by Muvizu being FREE that I don't want to see a paid version, but that's mainly because I was never all that annoyed by their logo in my animations at all. One hand washes the other it's not a big deal to me, Muvizu does a hell of a good job, the least I can do is not complain about their logo in my projects, but that's me. If I bring people to Muvizu by them seeing my animation Yay for that good for Muizu. Would I like to make money with my animations yeah, but quite honestly it's not my focus or my goal. What I really want to see in Muvizu adn I've said all this (above and below before) I want to be able to do EVERY STEP WITHIN MUVIZU: Preproduction(Planning)>Production>Post Production
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04/03/2013 08:56:26

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 976
and now my thoughts.......

Looking back on Kerry's initial questions they are three fold.

How can we improve Muvizu's terms for commercial projects?

No watermark. No ownership claims. Maybe insist on a credit.

The watermark is a real pain as it gets in the way when doing post production. You can't pan/zoom/overlay etc - you always have to re-shoot. This slows down production. As I've said before, sometimes I end up shooting wide, zooming to cut out the watermark then added it back in later- what a faff.

What features do you need to make money from Muvizu?

We all bang on about the features we want, but they're not really going to make any money for us. I have looked into this and have concluded that Muvizu is not something that will ever make me money and am not giving up the day job. I'd be interested to see if any productions using any of Muvizu's competitors has ever made any money?

When I started using Muvizu their income model seemed to be to take a cut of productions that started to earn revenue - but I really don't think that's ever likely to happen. Looking at the most popular Muvizu videos they would pretty much all have copyright infringement claims made against them if they ever started to make any decent money.

Personally I think they need a different model, which brings us to.....

If there were premium products which sat alongside the free version of Muvizu - products that were interesting to commercial users - how would you feel about that? Have you got any advice for us around pricing?

We, the community, are the users and benefit from the software for our hobby, so there's no real way round the fact that Muvizu need to get their revenue from us. Sorry guys, but unless one of us creates an original idea that makes skip loads of cash, this is the reality of the situation.

Creating two versions with different features is possible. I would tolerate a free version with a watermark and premium version with no watermark. This would involve a one off payment as I don't see how a subscription model would work.

Like Dylly, I've also thought that Muvizu should consider the DAZ model so they can start making some money. They could have a market place where they sell objects, actions and possibly characters. So if you want a train you can buy and download one - $20. You want your character to do the Macarena then you buy and install that action - $10. You want one legged character, you buy and download one - $35.

I think they would have to leave the ability to import your own ASE files for objects but the actions and characters would have to be developed within strict guidelines so they could keep a monopoly on these. They release an SDK so anyone can create these actions/characters but they will only be install-able through the approved marketplace where Muvizu would take a hefty cut. This would also enable them to do some QA on others work.

Muvizu would have to keep updating the core product, as do DAZ - interacting with objects, separate eye controls, better walking control etc - but the market place and SDK would speed up the development of the actions and characters which we're all crying out for (when was the last action added to the standard characters - at least 12 months ago)

This model would satisfy all parties. Users that wanted to use it free could still do so. Users that wanted to pay for the watermark to go could do so. Importantly Muvizu would not limit their income to the handful of one off payments they would get for the premium licence.
edited by ukBerty on 04/03/2013
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04/03/2013 10:22:27

toonaramaMuvizu mogulExperimental user
toonarama
Posts: 661
All
My thoughts on this are the same as ukberty and dylly.
I am an Iclone user and it is clear that they make a significant amount of money from add-on and resource packs and I think this is the way Muvizu could go.

I also think it would be a good idea to have a content marketplace as this would encourage more people to develop "muvizu styled" content and therefore add to the resources available. As a person who does not enjoy this part of the process I would have been more than happy to pay for some of the objects/sets I have nicked.

If they wanted to charge for the product itself I think that as well as losing the watermark it would have to become more "flexible" in terms of character creation and animation to allow people to create more unique films. I also doubt whether it could be used commercially in a "public" way without this as any commercial project would look too similar to the hundreds of muvizu videos already at large.

Despite all that I would still keep a free version with watermark and with a sufficient amount of resources within it to help "spread the word".
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04/03/2013 15:36:13

EEFilmzExperimental user
EEFilmz
Posts: 397
I agree w/UKBerty, Dylly, etc...and hopefully we can someday customize/build 3D fruit n veggy costumes for our characters to wear too but I have big big dreams swirling in my head lolI have a copyrighted character I'd love to create in 3d in muvizu to look exactly the way I want it but cannot.
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04/03/2013 21:13:31

dwino
dwino
Posts: 56
I think people here are providing some good insight. I agree with a lot of what people have said.

One issue and concern mentioned that I completely agree with is the following. Just do a Ctl F for the word "hold" on this page and it will come up several times. I will quote one of them:

"One of my hopes is that characters on Muvizu will be able to carry, hold, throw objects one day!"


I don't know if this would sky-rocket commercial projects for Muvizu, but it would definitely allow that to happen on a base level. If you can't even hold a prop or move something around, 60-70 percent of the stories people want to tell will be out of reach (no pun intended).
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05/03/2013 08:30:00

InsaneHamster
InsaneHamster
Posts: 272
KerryK wrote:
Hi Muvizuers,
  • ? Have you got any advice for us around pricing?
.


This is I think a very good question, one that I feel can be a deal breaker for a lot of people. Price it to high and no one will buy it. Price it to low and your not making any money off of it.

So what do I feel about how much a pro version is worth. Well assuming that there will be an upgrade for a pro-version with added bells and whistles I would say I would spend around $100-$200 (USD) and that is of course with features to make it worth that.

As of right now where it to be sold as a pro version....well I think i could pay up to $100 (USD)

Here are my reasonings behind why I would spend this amount.

1) I love this software and when I like something and I can afford it I will buy it.
2) It doesn't have alot of features other programs have but it does do something others don't and that is cut the production time down which I love. Cranking out a 2 to 5 minute video in a few hours is awesome and well worth the money. Shoot even cranking out a 30 minute movie is less time then other software.
3) For the most part it's very user friendly..yes there are a few hang-ups but over all easy to use
4) This may be last on my list but has one of the biggest impacts. As I also do alot of video game testing, and I have to say that for developers that are a big part of the community as well as trying to develope a product has really impressed me. Muvizu team makes it a point to let you know they are listening and make themselves visible on the forums. It's like going to a store to buy a suit. If I have to walk around and dont get any help from the sales person then I don't care if your the cheapest in town,I will take my business else where. But if you treat me like a valued customer and I will keep coming back even if I do pay more. I hope they keep this attitude when ever they decide to start selling there product. IT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE!!

So with that said and the many fine points alot of you have pointed out, the question is simple.

WHAT WOULD YOU PAY FOR A PRO-VERSION OF MUVIZU?

I am sure our answers to this question could have an impact on the future pricing of Muvizu so the more people that responds to that question the easier it is for the team of Muvizu to price accordingly.

Like I said in all honestly I would pay between $100.00 to $200.00 (USD) for Muvizu Pro-Version.
and up to $100.00(USD) now as-is.
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05/03/2013 13:27:46

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796

WHAT WOULD YOU PAY FOR A PRO-VERSION OF MUVIZU?

I am sure our answers to this question could have an impact on the future pricing of Muvizu so the more people that responds to that question the easier it is for the team of Muvizu to price accordingly.

Like I said in all honestly I would pay between $100.00 to $200.00 (USD) for Muvizu Pro-Version.
and up to $100.00(USD) now as-is.


$200.00 USD seems about right in the present economy anything less I think would be unfair to muvizu but for that 200.00 USD I would be expecting further development of the product. If the product is going no further well I would put it in the "cute toy" category and pay less but I am under the assumption that muvizu 'is not done yet' . I didnt see this last sentance originally or perhaps it was edited in later and I am just seeing it now

I guess I should answer also the premium products.

added content packs (for me I am mostly interested in more animations and character types because we can't import that ^^. Mind you for me its also time saving even though I can make complete characters that work and add the proper skeletons and even create animations. I usually limit myself to clothing meshes and models and leave the animation for some other guy because quite frankly there are only so many hours per day)

added features - say one day you solve how to get animations in from outside or perhaps you add mocap (the new in thing)

I am partial to the looks of muvizu characters against real world backgrounds (i think it looks very cool so my interests are limited in the way of most muvizu styled content so your not likely to sell me a lot of that anyhow but you never know I use the lights and chairs and tables a lot so depends what you come up with I suppose ^^)


Lastly a content marketplace is probably a good idea I have not encountered a company that can satisfy the needs of an entire world and so putting in a vehicle for others to sell content on your site (be it muvizu style or not ) and taking a percentage of that for hosting it and giving us a little shop is probably a good thing. I never have used it in iclone because well I hate the hassle of doing business at this level I prefer to work for some guy who asks me to make stuff rather then doing business at this level but I might try. I have done it in the past and eventually stopped but I might give it a go again.
edited by urbanlamb on 05/03/2013
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05/03/2013 15:20:52

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494
That's all very nice if you have the money but $200 would price me out of the market.
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05/03/2013 20:49:15

HayManMarcExperimental user
HayManMarc
Posts: 128
So, we would like to ask some questions:

How can we improve Muvizu's terms for commercial projects?

Sell a pro version of Muvizu that includes removal of watermark and a free-use license/TOS.



What features do you need to make money from Muvizu?

Here's a few ideas off the top of my head:


  • Easier importing of custom models.
  • More customization for heads and faces -- shape, size, etc.
  • Holding things
  • Ultra low rez for directing purposes, export to higher rez.


  • If there were premium products which sat alongside the free version of Muvizu - products that were interesting to commercial users - how would you feel about that? Have you got any advice for us around pricing?



  • Set packages (complete with lighting)
  • Costume packages
  • Object packages
  • Effects packages
  • Sound effects
  • Music


  • Base price could be $0.99 per item, depending on complexity.

    Tell us about other software you like, use professionally and applaud their approach.



    The best software approach I've encountered was "Game Maker" by Yoyo Games (http://www.yoyogames.com/). They started out free in their early days, then progressed to a "lite" version for free and a "pro" version for pay. Both versions grant the user complete ownership of their creations. The lite version has a watermark and lacks some of the cooler functions, but is still completely usable to create games. The pro version includes everything. They have recently moved into other areas (OS'es and mobile support) which include different pricing packages. They have a fantastic "terms of service" model.




    How much would you pay for a "Pro" version of Muvizu?




    As it is right now, I'd pay upwards to $100 USD (but that still seems high).


    • A 'Lite' Muvizu package would be free, and include the watermark and have limited options.
    • A basic Muvizu package for $49.95 would include the essentials -- basic characters, sets, object, etc. -- enough to make a good Muvi.
    • Upwards to $99.95 would include much more of the extras.
    • Then you can have a marketplace to sell more extras as you make them available.
    Updates would have to be free for bug fixes, patches, etc. Any major update including any new features or whatnot would probably carry a price tag.



    It's nice to see Muvizu trying to monetize and commercialize more, but kinda scary at the same time. We could reap great benefits from a well-funded Muvizu. However, I've grown attached to our little community and I love the ability to create something so great on a shoestring budget. I'd hate to see that disappear.

    (edited for clarity)
    edited by HayManMarc on 06/03/2013
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    06/03/2013 22:32:52

    urbanlamb
    urbanlamb
    (Account inactive)
    Posts: 1796
    I had a final thought that I forgot to mention because my A.D.D. makes me multitask but as I was reading the thread again I had not seen mentioned I dont think an affiliate program which I think would work well. I guess the usual is 15% of the final sale it would be for the main software of course I dont know if it would be workable for any content etc I think that would start to get a bit complicated to manage from muvizu's end.
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    08/03/2013 12:31:11

    DanimalMuvizu mogulExperimental user
    Danimal
    Posts: 477
    fazz68 wrote:
    i dunno about most people here but i dont have a pot to **** in, so if muvizu does charge for their software im afraid thats me done. its not that i wouldnt pay because i love messing about with muvizu but at the end of the day i just wouldnt be able to afford it.


    What He Said

    As the development seems to have been squarely on the heroes and villains pack lately rather than expanding the original and far better characters, charging a fee would probably do me in as well.
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    09/03/2013 12:59:11

    piquet
    piquet
    Posts: 12
    I suggest that the majority of users of muvizu are not commercial enterprises, though many, I'm sure, would dream about hitting the big time with their muvizu movies.

    Muvizu is not free, it has conditions. Users must advertise the product on every frame of a movie, and in this case, is a distraction, (Advertising usually costs the advertiser!) but if by some great piece of luck someone gets commercial interest from a business company, Muvizu wants a piece of the action. Sooo....not free. It is 'conditionally free'. Conditions that are not upfront on the opening page or even on the download page. That's sneaky. Most other free software that uses a 'watermark' have either a fee that will remove it from all future movies or purchasing the software will not require it. I know of no other 'free' software that wants a 'piece of the action' in addition to the watermark. Don't offer software as 'free' if there is a condition that allows you to demand payment from a user should his/her talent help them to be successful.

    Offer a free version, with a fee for removal of the watermark. No free updates, unless bug fixes (One year) and only a basic pack to allow movies to be produced. I suggest £30.

    Offer a purchase price for 'Enthusiasts' several packs included, no water mark, no financial requirement to pay anyone, anything once the software has been bought. Free updates for 18 months. I suggest £55

    Offer a commercial version, for companies that will use the software to promote/sell or enhance their products/services. All packs available at the time, no watermarks but credit and link to muvizu. 2 years updates. Discount on any further packs purchased. I suggest £95

    Charge for extra packs £10-30 depending on quantity and/or quality.
    edited by piquet on 09/03/2013
    edited by piquet on 09/03/2013
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    14/03/2013 16:17:10

    fullmetall
    fullmetall
    Posts: 164
    sorry i answer in french,

    une idée de commercialisation de Muvizu reside dans l'accompagnement à la formation des règles de securités dans l'entreprise pour les employés (ISO 9000,IFS, ect..) par exemple évoquer un point critique avec une animation Muvizu de manière humoristique pour mieux capter l'attention des personnes à former.
    @+

    gogol translate

    marketing an idea lies in the Muvizu accompanying training safety regulations in the company for employees (ISO 9000, IFS, ect ..) discuss such a critical point with a humorous animated Muvizu better capture the attention of people to train
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