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Home ? Feedback ? Whack- a- mole or trigger happy style?

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17/01/2013 22:58:55

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
I think I've mentioned this one before on the forum but here it is again anyway...

The current method for directing character actions can be like this..
http://www.aboutyoublog.com/wp-content/uploads/Whac-a-Monty-Mole.jpg

When directing you find yourself frantically scanning around for the animation block that you need next before the time for it to be selected( whacked) appears on the timeline. Matters are made even worse when you have to move from one set of nine on one tab to another! So...

If we could load up a list or a scrolling bar of our character actions which would be dispensed in the order we prepared them in, one after another then I feel this would prove to be a more accurate and methodical approach to placing character action where we want them during direction than the current system.
I'm not saying replace the whack a mole method ( although I know I would always use the other!)as some may enjoy it. No I'm suggesting that it be implemented as an alternative.

Any thoughts Muvizuers?
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17/01/2013 23:07:59

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
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Posts: 1796
I am not very good at wack-a-mole I must admit what I do is simply run the software and have it spit out the animations I loaded on the pages just by clicking them and interspersing idle between them until i have spat out about 20 animations and then I delete some and move some here and there I quite listerally run down the list at my own speed and then move all the bits around later. If I need more I reload the wack-a-mole pad and spit out another 6 or so in the same manner hehe. This is entirely contradictory to the "direct dont animate" but I can't do wack-a-mole so I dont. I dont know though if that classifies as a thought or a "how I avoid wackamole" statement

I think I get these techniques from other softwares *cough*
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17/01/2013 23:19:48

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
An action list? Interesting... It could be rigged so that only the shortest possible time block (to activate the animation) would be generated, followed by a gap to represent the total length of the animation (or 1 loop), then terminated with an Idle before the next animation. It would also provide of workaround way to copy/paste a set of actions from one character to another if we can save/load the list in the Timeline. Another top idea, D!
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17/01/2013 23:21:53

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
I don't think you are alone in this Urbanlamb, which is why I think a prepared list ( which would show the character action previously selected, the one ready to be be fired on to the timeline and the one next to come) would be the most effective, quick and easiest method for the user whilst maintaining the realtime " direct don't animate" philosophy and practice.
edited by Dreeko on 17/01/2013
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17/01/2013 23:28:04

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494
This is a very good idea. Are you listening Team Muvizu?
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18/01/2013 09:53:26

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
WozToons wrote:
This is a very good idea. Are you listening Team Muvizu?


Oh they hear us Woz, they hear us..
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18/01/2013 18:14:30

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
ziggy72 wrote:
An action list? Interesting... It could be rigged so that only the shortest possible time block (to activate the animation) would be generated, followed by a gap to represent the total length of the animation (or 1 loop), then terminated with an Idle before the next animation. It would also provide of workaround way to copy/paste a set of actions from one character to another if we can save/load the list in the Timeline. Another top idea, D!



oh this is something as well to be able to copy and paste sets of animations instead of clicking through the characters and animating them all seperately if you want to have them all do a similar set of actions it would be so much faster to do it once and then copy it over to the others you need them for.

that and the camera system on a track instead of my using my shaky hands which are getting worse over time to the point I really can't pan the camera properly would be great.

I was thinking about accessibility last night .. for some reason muvizu popped into my head (access for people with disabilities) I dont think muvizu can be used by people with any disabilities at all (maybe I am wrong.. dunno) but it seemed to me since muvizu really is something the educational world latches onto because of its lack of price tag that it follows suit that it should be fashioned so that people with poor motor control can use it.

So wack-a-mole actions and cameras and objects that can't be put on a path to make them move is sort of making it so you need be *cough* young, have full use of all your limbs and no older then 45 lol.

*quotes military guidelines from handbook for being enlisted in the service*

Anyhow I do know that wackamole frustrates a lot of people. Me I just kind of walk away from stuff if I get frustrated I have a lot of patience and have learned the art of try try again until I get it right. Unfortunately as I am well despite my best efforts to stay you know 20 and have lightening fast reflexes I have aged anyhow and my trifocals and slower reflexes make it so that wackamole is not such a good idea and so the element of luck plays a role in my animation at times now I know from experience and from the development of my ever growing persecution complex that I in fact am not a lucky person.


*goes back to try to pan that camera one more time and wack that animation interface again cause the last batch wasn't quite right*
edited by urbanlamb on 18/01/2013
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19/01/2013 10:31:25

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Yes,if the lists were transferable from character to character this would solve another bucket load of problems such as creating background characters (extras) quickly.

...which brings me nicely on to the next suggestion for the character list system.

A randomise option!

Once we have created our list of chosen character actions, imagine if there were a randomise option which would play out the actions in a random order continuously until direction is stopped.
This feature would allow the user to easily and quickly create animated background characters ( which are in essense only scenery themselves!) without having to laboriously animate each one in turn action after action.

So what do you think of this folks?
edited by Dreeko on 19/01/2013
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19/01/2013 15:07:22

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
i agree

As an alternate, you could have an Action on the list (for each Mood) called Randomize, which would just randomly play actions from it's Mood list. It could also have a sub option to select Subtle or Strong (Idle and Pose wouldn't work so well, so it would be better to not include them as options).
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19/01/2013 16:47:05

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
ziggy72 wrote:
i agree

As an alternate, you could have an Action on the list (for each Mood) called Randomize, which would just randomly play actions from it's Mood list. It could also have a sub option to select Subtle or Strong (Idle and Pose wouldn't work so well, so it would be better to not include them as options).


Hmmm..

I see what you're saying but I think I would prefer to choose which actions were going to be randomised. Nothing to prevent both being possible I suppose!
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19/01/2013 18:12:12

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
Yup, being able to choose would be better (and my own choice too) but I'm thinking about what would probably be easier to implement for Muvizu HQ. And also simpler to understand for newbies. Gotta remember the newbies too
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19/01/2013 19:41:55

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
ziggy72 wrote:
Yup, being able to choose would be better (and my own choice too) but I'm thinking about what would probably be easier to implement for Muvizu HQ. And also simpler to understand for newbies. Gotta remember the newbies too



I think a list method with a random option whether actions are picked by the user or by default random would be embraced by both newbie and hardcore muvi guys alike over the whack a mole method any day.

It would be interesting to know exactly what annoys/frustrates the average newbie most though, and how much of that is exactly the same as what annoys the likes of you, me and the other Muvizu extremists..
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20/01/2013 16:56:15

InsaneHamster
InsaneHamster
Posts: 272
my biggest fustration has always been having to flip through tabs to get to the animation i want to use after setting up everything.
I would love to have a seperate window with maybe a long list of selected animations instead of nine maybe 20 that can be sizable to match your workspace. that way you dont have to flip try to find the animation on which tab you put it.
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20/01/2013 18:14:11

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
Dreeko wrote:


It would be interesting to know exactly what annoys/frustrates the average newbie most though, and how much of that is exactly the same as what annoys the likes of you, me and the other Muvizu extremists..



muvizu extremist hehe

I think "extremist" probably translates into "the guy who wants to tell a full story with all the bells and whistles that go along with that". I would like to suggest that there would be more extremists if things like reflexes were not hindering their productions. Now I have to say that muvizu is a cakewalk in comparison to a couple of other platforms I tried and kind of ran away from in other areas however the nagging issue is all the "real time wack-a-mole" style things they have in the software. Unfortunately I think my ideal muvizu package would likely be more like "muvi-clone" because in all cases the extremists are pointing out the issues that them other guys have delt with in that "non wackamole way". Then one needs to ask are they driving away some other users? However I dont think the wack-a-mole ideas are working that well be it with this or how they have designed camera movement its difficult to get it to work well or at least as well as you think it should work. I think the walking is good I dont have issue with that and I think the way they have designed object movement is also fine I dont see anything much that is wrong with that in fact I think its awesome lol.

Now if they can fix this stuff and I think the character animations really its just a change of how the animations are spit out because I dont think the wacking the pad and turning pages really is great in the end. It also needs the ability to copy sets of animations to other characters that you spit out and sets that you pick on the pad for one guy instead of copying that one character .. if I want to add a different character type into the mix I have to set it up again..

of course the new characters dont have the same animation sets as the old ones do (much to my shagrin) so I guess that needs help as well


(stupid typos)
edited by urbanlamb on 20/01/2013
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